181. Revolutionising Perceptions, Repurposing Donkeys & Restoring Country: With Brooke Purvis, co-founder of the Last Stop Donkey Program

Brooke Purvis is a podcast listener who reached out after hearing the most recent episode with Chris Henggeler from Kachana Station last month. She wondered if she could help with the ‘donkey situation’ there. It turns out she’s co-founded something called the Last Stop Donkey Program, out of Singleton in the Hunter Valley of NSW.

Brooke and husband Heath say they saw many people looking to purchase donkeys in an attempt to combat growing stock losses from dingo attacks, as donkeys are renowned for their stock protecting capabilities. Their website explains: ‘There was only one problem, donkeys are hard to come by. However, in the Northern Territory and Queensland they are classified as pests and eradication measures are in place, usually aerial culling.’ Well, we know we can add WA to the culling list, of course.

So, partnering with the local school, would you believe, the Last Stop Donkey Program was born - taking in wild donkeys, re-socialising them, and training prospective owners before they purchase the donkeys. But that doesn’t begin to describe what’s happening there, only two years in. From broader education and even donkey therapy programs, to enormously positive ramifications for country and those stewarding it. From the promise of major financial benefits to farmers and the public coffers, to revolutionising how we might view so-called ‘pest’ animals in this country – right through to our Apex predator, the dingo.

Along the way, the donkeys are transforming this former horse-riding champ, and the growing number of people the program is reaching. And offering the ultimate prospect of stitching our landscapes and communities back together again.

Head here for automatic cues to chapter markers (also available on the embedded player on the episode web page), and a transcript of this conversation (please note the transcript is AI generated and imperfect, but hopefully serves to provide greater access to these conversations for those who need or like to read).

This conversation was recorded on 20 November 2023.

Title slide: donkey (supplied).

Music:
Regeneration, by Amelia Barden, off the soundtrack for the film Regenerating Australia.

Find more:
Last Stop Donkey Program.

Eight minute video from Landline on the ABC.

Transcript

Brooke: 0:00

There is so much value in them. There is more value in putting the time and effort into thinking of some solutions, rather than having them dead and used for dog bait.

Anthony: 0:16

G'day Anthony James here. You're with The RegenNarration, sharing the stories that are changing the story. And that was Brooke Purvis, a podcast listener, who reached out to me after hearing the most recent episode with Chris Henggeler from Kachana Station last month. She wondered if she could help with the donkey situation there. It turns out she's co-founded something called the Last Stop Donkey Program out of Singleton in the Hunter Valley of New South Wales. Brooke and husband Heath say they saw many people looking to purchase donkeys in an attempt to combat the growing stock losses from dingo attacks, a s donkeys are renowned for their stock protecting capabilities. T heir website explains: 'There was only one problem. Donkeys are hard to come by. H owever,

Anthony: 1:06

in the Northern Territory and Queensland they are classified as pests and eradication measures are in place, usually aerial culling.' Well, we know we can add WA to that culling list, of course. So partnering with the local school, would you believe, the Last Stop Donkey Program was born, taking in wild donkeys, re-socialising them and training prospective owners before they purchased the donkeys. But that doesn't begin to describe what's happening there, only two years in, from broader education and even donkey therapy programs to enormously positive ramifications for country and those stewarding it, from the promise of major financial benefits to farmers and the public coffers, to revolutionising how we might view so-called pest animals in this country - right through to our apex predator, the dingo. Along the way the donkeys are transforming this former horse riding champ and the growing number of people the program is reaching and offering the ultimate prospect of stitching our landscapes and communities back together again.

Anthony: 2:18

Before we start, though, thanks very much to new subscribing members, Celia Leverton and Elizabeth Sandoval. Thanks also to Fanie Du Plessis for your correspondence from South Africa and another generous donation, and to Chris Diehl for your correspondence from Tucson, Arizona, and your two years of membership to date. And while I'm celebrating loyal subscribers, thanks to the very first subscribers from over two years ago still backing me in this - Susie Bate, Fiona, Amy Rankin, Vicki Mann (hi mum), Josie Symons, Alex Muir, N elson Cheng ( hi bro), Justin Wolfgang, Sharon Clifford, Todd Delfs, Ben Symons, Caitlin Tacey, and, yes, my wife Olivia. It's what makes this ad-free, freely available podcast possible. If you're also finding value in it, please consider joining Celia, Elizabeth, Fanie, C hris and this great community of supporting listeners. Just head to the website via the show notes regennarration. com/ support - and thanks again. Okay, let's join Brooke.

Brooke: 3:27

Hi, how you going?

Anthony: 3:28

Hi, going well. How are you?

Brooke: 3:30

I'm fabulous, thank you.

Anthony: 3:32

It's great to speak with you again.

Brooke: 3:34

Yeah, it is. Thanks so much, I appreciate it.

Anthony: 3:37

Where have I found you?

Brooke: 3:39

I've come home, so the internet is perfect for now.

Anthony: 3:44

Good stuff, touch wood.

Brooke: 3:47

Yeah, I know, I just came in from the paddock. It was pretty bad out there.

Anthony: 3:50

Really In what way?

Brooke: 3:51

Yeah, just the internet. Yeah, it'd be like all farmers standing on the top of something holding your phone up, hoping for the best.

Anthony: 4:02

Yes, I've experienced enough of it to, particularly up north. I haven't even funny places in windows and all sorts of things Gotcha. All right, brooke, so you've started this thing called the Last Stop Donkey program. Yeah, let's share with the listeners first up what that is, and then maybe we can talk about how it came to be and move along from there.

Brooke: 4:24

Most definitely so. What we do is we buy wild mustard donkeys off remote stations and what that looks like is out on the remote stations. Obviously the donkeys are feral out there and are often shot or cold or however it is, and what we've done is we've got a really bad dog problem down here in the Hunter Valley to kind of. You know, donkeys are great at being stock guardians as well as pets. So we get them down here, they come into our program. They've never seen humans, as you could imagine. We don't know their age, their gender, pregnancy, any background on them. So they come to us and then sort of go through the program and get to the other side, which is a fully handled donkey. That can, you know, go and help somebody, either on their farm or as a pet therapy animal, however it turns out.

Anthony: 5:23

Yes, this is all very interesting. How did you come to possibly be doing this?

Brooke: 5:29

Great question Again. My son was out on a remote cattle station in South Australia where they were doing a lot of culling but they were having to use the donkeys as the aerial dog bait. So they were shooting the dogs and then using the meat as bait. And you know, we were just talking one night and I thought, oh gosh, down here, you know we've got that many dogs as well, but don't the donkeys kill the dogs. And it sort of came to that. And then local ag teacher and I were sitting there. She used to be a ringer as well and we had a chat and came up with the idea of grabbing some wildcourt donkeys and doing a term with the Year 9 Ag class, just for some skills building and something different, and it sort of spiralled from there.

Anthony: 6:21

All right. So what did you do first, then, when you came up with the idea?

Brooke: 6:26

Well, first we had to convince the school that it was a good idea to run feral donkeys through their ag program with their kids. They were fantastic. I'll have to really, you know, take my hat off to everyone that said yes to start with, because it was a big ask, Because, to be completely honest, we went in completely unaware of, you know, donkeys' needs and the best way to get results. So you know, we've come a long way since we started and the class helped. You know, the donkeys have really taught us as we go along and our skills improve.

Brooke: 7:03

Yeah, so you know we had 12 donkeys first started in the program down there. That did three months with the Year 9 Ag students and that was directly how it started for three months and then after that that just went absolute nuts with interest and people wanting their donkeys. We went on to get another hundred more and that's sort of where we are today. So it started off at school and now we've got, you know, different stations, sort of everywhere. We've got about five different paddocks for the donkeys and you know, because when they come in they've got to go into quarantine for a while, so you can't mix them with the ones you've already got, you know, just different management strategies we've had to put in place.

Anthony: 7:52

Yeah Well, because this only started two years ago, right?

Brooke: 7:56

So yeah, October 2021.

Anthony: 7:58

October 2021. Yeah, so, almost exactly two years. So in two years, what's the snapshot of where it's come to?

Brooke: 8:05

The snapshot is we've learned so much and we've been able to refine the way that we do things with the donkeys for a really good outcome. We've got the donkeys coming, probably turning around, in about six weeks. So you know, they come to us and they only have to be in my program for six weeks till they're ready to be led on to a horse float to have their feet done, their teeth done, be wormed, be, you know, able to handle kids, you know anything in life. It's about six weeks from the guys that do come in. Now there's a different. Obviously we have them with us. We do different things, you know, you know. So that's just in the training program. That's not. That's how long it takes. You know they're with our other quiet donkeys Sometimes. We've now finally got some quiet ones, which we didn't have in the beginning. So that is a very big help to us. I must say that's a huge advantage.

Anthony: 9:06

It's so interesting. I'm curious, then, to have got to this point where You're pretty that I'm not sounds like it's pretty accomplished. That's a pretty quick turn around. I would thought you said before the donkeys teach you so much, maybe that's a good place to go at your journey. I guess in that two years of learning, Definitely.

Brooke: 9:28

Look, I'm really thankful the people that we've got with us, our team that helps us. But you know, donkeys, that I probably gave up on too early on because my skills were lacking not there, so I was able to skill build. I was then able to Possibly get a better result from the donkey. So I guess the thing for us is also been are we doing the right thing by the donkey? What's a better way? What's a better management? And every time we're working with them, something comes up that will refine and change. So we're not just hard set because, to be perfectly honest, there was not many people I could turn to and say I've got a mob of 50 wildcourt donkeys, what do we do? I've managed to find a couple of really good resources now that have been Extremely kind with their knowledge and help. They haven't done it on this big of a scale, but they've got the knowledge in the wildcourt because they're completely different to the domestic.

Brooke: 10:26

Yeah yeah, so it. But I said, you know, being able to then teach the farmers or teach anyone that wants to know a bit more about a donkey. If you think of it, you've got horse breakers, horse trainers, they're everywhere. Where do people go to learn how to look after their donkey? Yes, they may be really useful. However, we've got to then give the tools to that farmer or that owner To do the best care practice for the donkey as well. So we've got a couple of outcomes we need to look at and meet and make sure you know we're not making the donkey circumstance where, yeah, yeah, because a lot of people think you can just put it out in the paddock and off it goes and protects it, your livestock. It's just not. That's not how it works.

Anthony: 11:10

Yeah, yeah, so that the education piece is a big piece of it, hey, but in that sense I'm linking back to where you started, in the school. So you've got a lot of kids now who have come on and they're the trainers.

Brooke: 11:22

I've been super lucky, so I'm. As you can imagine, kids do progress through the program and they leave school and go to uni and then we get the next batch, so I've been really, really grateful To how many people give their time up to come and learn. And one of the young girls that's actually working with me with me at the moment. Her name's Matilda. She's had absolutely no experience. You know never, ever, doesn't even do at school. However, she's given up her weekends and she's actually going to be a rule doctor, but she has just gained the most wonderful handling skills with the donkey and she knew nothing and sometimes I found that to be Helpful for people oh yeah, if they come in with a clean slate, rather than Generally someone says I've got a horse, that'll be right at that scary.

Brooke: 12:18

It's opposite. I thought the same thing to say. I'm one of those people. But the kids that come through, they also teach us. You know, if you watch them long enough, they've got a different way about them that they obtain an outcome. They've got a lot more time in there. You know they're very kind and they get attached to the donkeys and it's fabulous. To be honest, it's hard to explain to people. Donkeys are like big dogs. They have this huge outgoing personality and they know their people. If I go into the paddock I can absolutely get mobbed, but if I take someone with me that they don't know, they're super cautious. Give them a blood and come and stand behind me. So you know they've just been. You know I'm more probably grateful to the donkeys and they are for me.

Anthony: 13:10

It's so interesting when I think about how they are viewed. And of course, this is how you came to me, because it was after the episode out of Kachana station in the Kimberley here recently and you said maybe this can be of help. And this is indeed the sort of contingency that the Hengla family is looking at if needed but hopefully it's not needed as that mediation continues. Hopefully there is a way that indeed you're showing where donkeys can be not only of value, well, but but of so much more than that. The value is so much, is so layered. It sure it's it's livestock guardian, but also, in the Hengla's case, it's a regeneration tool where the cattle can't go.

Anthony: 13:54

Oh, yep, most definitely so what you're showing is sort of multifaceted possibility when otherwise it's deemed pest and to be cold.

Brooke: 14:03

Definitely. Well, we've got a couple of different test sites as well going for research. So there's actual you know, some actual outcomes that can be measured. And the Humane Society, dr Louise, her and I have been working together and we've got some livestock guardians out in paddocks and we've got test paddocks and things like that, just to get actual outcomes and facts. But they had a really cool outcome that they weren't expecting was exactly what you just said about the regeneration and what the donkeys actually ate as compared to the other livestock. So they actually got better outcomes with their cattle, with weights and things like that.

Brooke: 14:49

Then they did previous, which wasn't even something we were taking into consideration, but it's most definitely a trend that you can see. Obviously, it does go on seasons and things like that, as you know. However, they were really, really happy with you know, even the clearing that the donkeys ate, like the thistles, are things that the donkeys eat and most people probably don't know, but 90% of what they eat they use, so their waste is usually only 5 to 10%, so their poo breaks down extremely quickly and they're just very efficient. They generally only drink about nine litres of water a day, so there's just so many things in value of them and living 30 to 50 years.

Brooke: 15:37

you know what an amazing asset you've got.

Anthony: 15:41

Oh yeah, what an amazing turnaround to think that they're so water efficient too. So we're thinking instantly wow for the near Australian environment. That are they not perfect in many ways Most definitely, and people just yeah.

Brooke: 15:54

And you know what another thing has come out is. I get emails and I probably get five or six a day asking me if we sell donkey milk. We have a huge demand for donkey milk at the moment. I don't milk our donkey Get out.

Brooke: 16:10

I kid you not, I swear I could make a market with donkey milk. It's really. Apparently the qualities in donkey milk are extraordinary and we get people that really really are passionate and chasing it fairly hard. You know. It's just something interesting to mention to you as another byproduct of them that everybody wants. But you know they're pregnant from 11 to 14 and a half months, so their gestation is such a wide variety. Like no one's really seen that with cattle. You know when they're doing. When you'll get a baby with a donkey, you just don't know. Yeah, so they they're more beneficial than anybody knows.

Anthony: 16:56

Oh wow, isn't that something.

Brooke: 16:59

Yes, cool.

Anthony: 17:00

It's so interesting. You raised that too, because an ABC report of last year said that donkey prices are soaring.

Brooke: 17:09

Yeah, it has been insane, the prices for donkeys. And sometimes I feel that people ring and say you know what a donkey or what for a five, and you know only five hundred bucks. You know people haven't caught up to what, don't you? Prices are like I can't even buy a donkey for anywhere near that side, unseen and uncaught, if you know what I mean. And a lot of people think that we're a rescue. We're not very purpose, we're still a business. We still got a, you know, make, make the dollar, make that the moment it's also funded by us, so we buy everything and sell everything. It's not given to us or Anything like that. But I'm sure, hopefully, if the government, you know, with Kachana station and things like that, there's definitely things that could be done, you know, with the donkeys that are on there.

Anthony: 18:05

but I really think there's something in that biodiversity that they've got out there With the donkeys helping with, for sure yeah, yep, I remember also coming across half a dozen years ago that this was such a scene, of such a growing opportunity. There was increasing talk of farming donkeys in the northern territory. Yes, and again, while we're trying to call them whatever there are five million or something running world in Australia we try to call them. We're spending the fortuitous, putting families like the English through all sorts of torture To kill them and what. Over the border we're thinking of farming them the way so much. And now you're finding this repurposing is worth.

Brooke: 18:45

Absolutely it will. You know it. There is so much value in them. There is more value in putting the time and effort into thinking of some solutions rather than having them dead and used for, you know, dog bait. You know there's been quite a few bought over into new south Wales. I think about seven hundreds been bought down on the coast and put into you know, a farmer's and things like that down the Leesmore coast we are, honestly I've probably got a waiting list of about a hundred and that's that's an absolute no joke of people that are wanting a donkey. You know there is just so much demand for it and also for the training courses people are now catching on that they do have to know how to look after their donkey and if they come and do a two day course they're really well equipped for that 30 to 50 year you know investment that they've now got.

Anthony: 19:50

Yeah, yeah. I think about donkey populations declining around the world and Chris Angler made this point to like if here is a last bastion of this remarkable animal when the species where it originated disappearing or have disappeared, I think about the fact that it's it's one of the strongest blood tonics in traditional Chinese medicine. So the skin, the donkey hide, gelatin is a jojo yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, and so the populations are declining, and China, such that they're looking at us now as a potential.

Brooke: 20:27

Yes, absolutely, you are so right. And you know, the biggest question I get asked is why are there so many donkeys? How are the donkeys? Why people don't realize that the donkeys opened up Australia exactly? They were what that was, you know, put our railing, they were our working animal. That really, you know, made this all possible for us.

Brooke: 20:49

Right on you know, and then they're fascinated and they go and look into it and go. You're right, you know why. So it really does go back to our heritage as well, with with the donkeys that are wild and on the stations and stuff. But there is value in mustering them and doing something with them, rather than culling and the amount that gets spent. You know, maybe they could really look at a couple of other options.

Anthony: 21:18

Oh, and to think of the billions that are spent on culling. That never really gets the job done either, and it's cruel.

Brooke: 21:25

Yep, and the thing is to. There's no rhyme or reason with it. They don't know if they're shooting a 30 year old donkey and I know you know what I mean is it? You know? Are they taking out an old jack, like there's no nice thought that goes in into that part? Obviously there is thought, but you know there's no rhyme or reason. When you're up there you don't know what you're eradicating.

Anthony: 21:48

Yes, exactly. Then I think of all the other piss, you know so called pests, and it makes me think, okay, what new lens can we put on these animals, I think? I mean we have got so many millions of foxes and pigs and goats and at least a million camels, I think. At last time I checked, yeah, buffalo like you bet, but a lot, you said it.

Anthony: 22:13

I wonder, I wonder if indeed these have, if not similar potential, but just a related lens we can put on it. How can we harness, how can we become, how can we come to relationship, as you've described so beautifully, with the donkeys? Is it possible with these others, such that, again, given Cullings not working, it's so expensive? What other possibilities are there? Do you think about that?

Brooke: 22:39

I most definitely do, and I think people haven't thought about that. That's, you know what other options are there. And that's when I listened to your podcast and heard it and thought, gosh, obviously you know our program in New South Wales hasn't quite made it. You know what we do around Australia. If there was a lens shown, you know what that outcomes could be. You know people might start doing it and go. You know what. That's a really good idea. I did have a lady who's now retired and this is her retirement plan. So she's doing wildcourt donkeys, handling them and selling them, and that's now her new retirement plan, you know, and she had no idea about it. And it's just if we just need to put it in front of the right people, because Australia has people with so many broad skills, but also giving someone the tools you know what I mean to get the job done, because if I had the tools about a year earlier, it would have been a hell of a lot quicker and better outcomes. You know, for the donkeys too, I'm sure.

Anthony: 23:47

Yeah, yeah, and I think about also. I mean you sent me an article after we had a little chat on the phone because we came to where you started effectively with the wild dog quote unquote problem that the donkey idea came to you in the first place as a guardian animal. And you sent me an article that featured one of the blokes who's also been in the podcast over here in the West, david Pollock at Wolverine station, because he was one of a few cattlemen that had been interviewed for this article, saying they don't bait the dingos anymore.

Brooke: 24:18

Yep. So we've got a wonderful relationship with the dingo mob in Queensland. They're running some data at the moment and we're just working in conjunction with them and we're looking at putting a trial lot of 50 donkeys out obviously they would all have to come through the program first, but putting them out into test sites so they can show that this really does work. And I think that's what we need to have some, some evidence to show this is very successful, rather than people like me just saying yeah, it works, great, because I've seen it. Unless you know, we seem to be an outcome based society. Now we need to have that fact there.

Brooke: 25:04

So you know, what I mean it is. There's so much promise there, and if we can just get everyone sort of on the same page and looking at it and going, oh yeah, well, that could be an option, you know, I think the donkeys and Australia would get some really good traction with it.

Anthony: 25:25

You know it's funny. I just saw the other day an article in the Guardian because there was a dingo taken to Parliament House. I don't know if you saw this and the reason why, like, it was a symbolic gesture of course, on the one hand, but it was based on the fact that the genetic research another researcher I think was Dr Kylie Kans did, where they actually did genetic research of alleged wild dogs around the country and found that indeed most of them were mostly dingo. In other words, the conclusion was that feral dogs, if you like, don't make it, particularly if dingo packs are intact, because they don't tolerate the feral. But even otherwise they're just not equipped to be able to handle the Australian landscape on their own. So what they're arguing mostly is that we need to ditch the terminology of wild dog and call it what it is dingo. And then it has a whole other bunch of permutations and ramifications that we're sort of talking about here Because most definitely, as very well put, I couldn't agree with you more.

Brooke: 26:35

You know, and it's something I really wasn't aware of until I got into the donkey so yes, we may have been farming, but it just wasn't something that came up. That's a topic of interest, but once you get into it, you know we all should be talking about it, because it really is impacting a lot of us over here.

Anthony: 26:54

Yes, yes.

Brooke: 26:55

Yes, it's just those conversations and starting and you know as to where we go. And podcasts like yours are wonderful because it has the reach of so many ears of people that normally you wouldn't have a conversation with. So you know, I really find this type of social media extremely helpful because we did an episode on landline and just the exposure that the donkeys got from that was mind blowing and extremely helpful for the donkey.

Anthony: 27:27

Yes, yes, I'm going to put a link to that too. It was a terrific little clip on landline. I'll put a link to that in the show notes. And then if we stitch all this together and this is to me the really exciting prospect, that literally we could be stitching landscapes back together in a holistic way, because then you can have, then you can have dingos, be dingos and experience what Wolleen station has experienced, for example, where it gets rid of all the foxes, all the goats, the excess kangaroos, like all that sort of stuff, even scares off the cats.

Anthony: 27:59

I don't know where they go, but if we had enough dingos maybe we scare them off the continent of that of. It's a big issue, but it gets rid of so much of that over grazed, unmanaged pressure that graziers pay through the teeth for. And then, if you can't switch to cattle so I don't think the Pollocks have lost any cattle by dingos but if you've got sheep and goats that you're actually farming, the fact that you could use donkeys as your guardian animals and I think even one of those pastoralists didn't even have guardian animals in that article, so whatever he's doing is some other thing, but the fact that you can Imagine freeing people of the land and us as a country is a whole of that. Culling waste, brutality, burden, enable great regeneration, more profitability as people on the land, more humane relationship with the animals we're working with across the board and more time.

Brooke: 28:57

Go on tell me about that, honestly, it's time if you, if anyone, really took stock of how much time farmers spend on permanent pest control and money yeah you know that was something that came out of our study.

Brooke: 29:14

I was the farmer that's got the donkeys in the paddocks. The amount of time that they had to put back into another resource on the farm, was it? You know, quite, I don't think they ever thought how much time they spent until they actually had that extra time. You know time is money, like for everybody. But you are right, and the other sort of resource that we've got is we've got a lot of Australian country schools that have egg plots. You know there's resources there for kids with the donkeys. You know, like that everybody could team up. We could do a muster don't instead of muster dogs. We can switch over and do that.

Anthony: 30:02

Oh, yes, yes. Did you ever see the brilliant documentary film of what was it called backtrack boys?

Brooke: 30:11

I did yes. I did yes, I have.

Anthony: 30:13

You are look, yes yes, well, it makes me think of this.

Brooke: 30:16

It's like the donkeys instead of the dogs to be honest, I'd love to see something happen and it's more just To get the recognition, because it's not covered enough, so people really don't know about it that it is a resource and something helpful. It's just like a bit of folk or farmers tale that one farmer tells it there's no real, you know, substance and things getting out to them to say, look, this really may help. You know, these are the options, this is what you can do, and a lot of them have questions and they're wonderful questions. The questions are will we muster with dogs? How's that gonna work? You know all. We've got a 36 acre paddock and we've got 700 head or stocking rates. Like. There's just questions like that that that need to be given to the farmers so they feel a little bit like okay, yeah, sure. So having that knowledge to give them is probably our biggest gift that we can Go to them prepared that something that I find farmers just like, that bottom line. What's the outcome? How do we get to their?

Anthony: 31:27

You know, very simple it's interesting you say that to, but every farmer I've met Loves the land and loves the animals. So yes, bottom line is important, but they love that's what I mean.

Brooke: 31:38

That's exactly right. And you know that they just want Give them don't, don't have all the fluff around it. Give me the bottom line. Yeah, how do I fix it? Yeah, yeah, so willing. But generally that how do I fix this is no answer there for them. So we've got the answer there for them. Of course, they're going to do it like you said. Really, they have a huge care, or they wouldn't be out doing what they do exactly.

Anthony: 32:06

It's not easy. It isn't easy and I really, you know, I take my hat off to them oh hundred percent and not easy and not very recognized either, and this is the thing it's like we share a plight With. Well, first nations to, and these animals, that the marginalized beings in this country, and I think I'm speaking of stitching things together. If we can find Holistic ways to view and obviously repair damage it's done to communities, to landscapes, then it could be a really unifying and galvanizing Thoughts.

Brooke: 32:40

I think so and I think you're right there. I had a conversation with a little seven year old boy the other day and you know everyone says what do you want to be when you grow up and you get the policeman, ambulance fireman yes he said to me, I want to be a donkey farmer. And I just looked at him and went WhERETH. Oh lord. He came home and he told his mum and I just thought you know what? How cool was that like?

Anthony: 33:07

That's right.

Brooke: 33:07

Mum knows where he's been hanging out with his little world now, and it's something that he thinks that he would enjoy, because how often do you? Hundred country will country kids say farmers, they see it all the time. But City kids see Sydney show and you know they see their first animal sort of there. It's not, it's not in their verbiage and discussion around tables. And yeah, I just, I think you're right, we can all pull together that we would have such better outcome.

Anthony: 33:37

You mentioned Dr Louise before Louise Boronak. You also said that she's got some research going in Queensland speaking of First Nations with some aboriginal communities regarding the dingo as well.

Brooke: 33:50

He most definitely does so. She is a absolute wonder. She has been all over the world in her research and she's joined up with the dingo. I'm with that association and she was there for the first time in the other day. I'm bet she's put out a wonderful research paper on guardian animals and also on the dingo. So that's how we connected. She saw the program and reached out to me and you know we've been able to pull together and make a pretty good resource pack and then that's filtered out to the Queensland dingo society. You know for them to reach out to us. So it's all about the fabric and weaving us all in together. For you know, one hand to help the next hand.

Anthony: 34:42

Beautifully put. And you before did you mention to me that you had more of a connection with horses previously.

Brooke: 34:51

I did. I've grown up in the horse arena. You know it was very. You know that the AIS and we did the opening at the Olympics and played polo cross at a high national standard and I will, any day of the week, go out and hang out with a donkey over.

Anthony: 35:12

Is that right?

Brooke: 35:13

They are just. You know their personalities. You know I think anyone can have a laugh. You got to go out with a bucket of feed for a horse. You know how to hide your head. Still Creep up a certain way and don't keep this like there's my person on there. They are they are just really amazing.

Anthony: 35:36

What do you? Know, it's such such an education and indeed you're finding this now, hey, like other contexts where the education is so you're starting to get called in in other contexts to provide this sort of a I don't know what, is it almost healing? But certainly education programs like NDIS and stuff, national Disability Insurance scheme, stuff.

Brooke: 35:57

Look, I take my hat off to West Wailong High School. The ag teacher out there has piloted the very first donkey therapy program in a school. Wow, she tasked me with finding two perfect wildcourt donkeys that we could put into a school environment, and when I mean into a school environment, they are in the classrooms, they're in the hallways, they're athletics carnivals, swimming carnivals and the outcomes that the teachers have had there with the tenants, with, you know, children and issues, and you know they have just such a wonderful healing structure and program out there. Just to see what they've done in their. Their school has been off and I think for them they feel wonderfully about it because it's really changed their landscaping school.

Brooke: 36:53

Like kids are excited to come. They're on time. You know they've got certain things that the kids can come and do over morning or things get a bit frustrating. The kids can go down to the donkeys. You know they've just piloted a really cool platform and it would be worth somebody, you know, looking into that. That it was really good and no one's really thought to. When the kids go home they're still donkey. So that teacher gives up so much of her own time. You know, on weekends and things like that they don't just look after themselves holidays. So she's had to take on a lot, but yeah, look at them go.

Anthony: 37:34

Wow, alright, brooke. As we get towards the close, I'm very curious about how this journey's been for you and your family.

Brooke: 37:42

Yeah, it's funny you should ask. So I've got two children who are 20 and 22 and their boys and they've sort of left home. So it's my husband and I at home. So I have a lot of extra time on my hands and that's why I think the donkey program came in a good time. But you know I've got a very selfless husband that is a jack of all trades that can do and does do. But you know we get a lot of enjoyment out of it. We've had lots of new experiences people, communities we love seeing the kids outcomes, you know new friendships with kids, families, teachers, communities. We feel great.

Anthony: 38:32

Here's to that. Alright, so people can support this right. You've got the ability to donate to sponsor and, of course, if people are interested in buying donkeys off you do you want to tell people how they can help, or indeed benefit.

Brooke: 38:46

Yeah, for sure. And even if someone wants some advice and they're not sure where to start with buying one and it doesn't have to be from us we're most happy to help. So we've got a website which is wwwlastdonkeyprogramcomau and you can get on there and we've got all the details and links up there. And we really partner in to with a lot of the city kids. So we are linking up city and country kids. So zoom meetings, so we do zoom learning with the city kids and the country kids do it with the city kids.

Brooke: 39:23

so we're sort of, you know, building our own little community and helping To lots of you know the country kids get to show the city kids part of their life and the kids get the benefit of seeing the donkeys and what they do and you know it's not always pretty so they get to see the good, the bad and the ugly. But we found a lot of people just want to log in and watch a session with the donkeys and that's something that they can do as well.

Anthony: 40:00

And you had. You had one family donate some land as well.

Brooke: 40:04

I've been super blessed with a local family down here in Singleton that has made available so many resources for us, which is just it's made all the difference. It's made us be able to do what we do really. Yeah, it's, and they really don't want any recognition. There's nothing that comes and there's. They're just always there. If something needs to happen, let us know what it is and it and it's done. It's just super grateful. Their farmers as well, their business, local business, people and they just love their animals.

Anthony: 40:42

That's beautiful, brooke. Well, I gave you the tip before we started a that I always close by asking my guests for a piece of music that's been special to him. What comes to your mind?

Brooke: 40:53

I really like the song called in colour by Jamie Johnson.

Anthony: 41:01

I see this is what I love. I don't know this one. I'm gonna have to play it after we wind up you do. I wish I could patch it in the podcast, but I'm gonna listen to it while I put it together anyway.

Brooke: 41:12

It's amazing. It just tells you a story through the whole thing and that you can relate to. Enjoy that very much.

Anthony: 41:19

I will. You know well. Clearly you want a trophy or two with horses, but if I had a trophy here right now, I'd be giving it to you for donkeys. It's amazing what you're doing. You haven't had governments or bureaucrats pick up the phone to you. Have you, by any chance?

Brooke: 41:37

Haven't heard a word from anyone, but all some locals are just, you know, everybody that helps us do this. I'd have to give a trophy to them.

Anthony: 41:47

Yeah, well.

Brooke: 41:48

I couldn't do it with everybody that does, and you know that's to fixing a fence or to trucking the donkeys from a different side or drenching them. The vet that gales them like we've been magnificent so blessed with a vet that does donkeys, it's very hard to get. That'll be another topic for another time, just finding the vet 100%. I do feel grateful for the community that's built around us, but no governments, no, no one's reached out.

Anthony: 42:20

Not yet, hey? BP: Yeah, not yet hopefully. AJ: Hopefully indeed, you're right in the remit of this podcast, changing the story. BP: Yeah. AJ: Thanks, Brooke. I'm so glad you reached out. It's been absolutely brilliant connecting and I look forward to keeping in touch.

Brooke: 42:36

Yeah, I want to say thank you too for all the time you spent into content and, you know, putting us in people's ears that we normally wouldn't get into. So thank you for what you do.

Anthony: 42:47

That was Brooke Purvis, co-founder of the Last Stop Donkey program. For more on Brooke, the program and, of course, how you can help or get involved, see the links in the show notes. I did manage to catch up with Chris Henggeler at the Reconnection Festival too last week. There is a minor update afoot at Kachana. The adjudication date on the donkey's fate there has been deferred to January. A nd with so much new information coming to light all the time, doesn't it call for more dialogue and connecting of dots? There are just so many benefits on offer to all. So please do share this episode far and wide, including with your MPs and other official decision makers. And speaking of the Reconnection Festival, it was just great to see some of you in and around that in the Northern Rivers last week - and en route. Fair to say, I think with any gathering like that, sparks of inspiration, learning and ideas for what comes next take serious flight. They can raise challenges too. So cheers to the Farmer's Footprint team and everyone else willing to go there. A nd for those who missed it, or would like to experience some of it again, I'll share some of the panel conversations on the podcast soon.

Anthony: 44:05

Thanks, as always, to the generous supporters who made this episode possible. If you've been thinking about becoming a subscriber or other kind of supporter, I'd love you to join us. Subscribers get a bunch of perks like behind the scenes footage, pics, invitations, tips and new chat room in the Patreon app to engage with other listeners. J ust head to the website via the show notes regennarration. com/ support - and thanks again. The music you're hearing is Regeneration by Amelia Barden off the soundtrack to the film Regenerating Australia. My name's Anthony James. Thanks for listening.