The RegenNarration Podcast
The RegenNarration podcast features the stories of a generation that is changing the story, enabling the regeneration of life on this planet. It’s ad-free, freely available and entirely listener-supported. You'll hear from high profile and grass-roots leaders from around Australia and the world, on how they're changing the stories we live by, and the systems we create in their mold. Along with often very personal tales of how they themselves are changing, in the places they call home. With award-winning host, Anthony James.
The RegenNarration Podcast
172 Extra. Come Work in Roebourne: Some candid off the record yarning & an invitation
After we finished this week's conversation with our distinguished guest, Indigenous artist and community leader, Patrick Churnside, some off-the-record yarning was also recorded. We decided to release it as a bonus 10 minute extra, given its rich and candid exchanges, which also culminated in an invitation to Roebourne. As it happens, it comes at a time when there is a wonderful position going at the Digital Lab (see the PDF file below if you're interested).
Head here for automatic cues to chapter markers (also available on the embedded player on the episode web page), and a transcript of this conversation (please note the transcript is AI generated and imperfect, but hopefully serves to provide greater access to these conversations for those who need or like to read).
This conversation was recorded at the Big hART Digital Lab on 6 June 2023.
Title slide: Roebourne / Ieramugadu, from the lookout Patrick talks about in the main episode (pic: Anthony James).
See more photos on that main episode web page (link below), and to see more from behind the scenes, become a subscriber via the Patreon page.
Music at the end:
Patrick tinkering on guitar before we started our conversation.
Find more:
Tune into our full conversation for episode 172, Songlines for Freedom. You'll see photos there too, and the PDF of the position description for a Digital Arts Producer (for immediate action if you're interested).
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No worries.
Anthony:Wonderful.
Patrick:I hope we got it all in there.
Anthony:We got it all in there. That's just so terrific. I really appreciate it, mate. Thank you.
Patrick:No, it's been a pleasure.
Patrick:Well, I've been doing some, I guess you know, narrating in part of my theatre and performing art space through the company I created a show we call Jubby, so some of them, songs I sing, are Jubby story songs, you know from the old peoples. But it's, I guess, an interwoven show which I've just recently, in the last few years, put into community. But it's a show I'm hoping to take on the road now, coming up Really, I guess, following Songs for Freedom. You know where this may end in the 40th anniversary concert back here on the Cultural Lones Day, the Culture Centre space, you know, hoping that we have a lot of those attorney generals from around the country coming for this, but also, you know, those lawmakers to actually see where we've been and what we have done to create that public awareness greater and showed a bit more to the communities, you know, around the country, but hoping that it would drive change. But coming back, you know, 40 years on, to maybe ask the questions, you know. But it has happened and what is going to happen?
Anthony:Yeah, I spoke with Clinton Walker at Adhissan's Cove two years ago. He, like you, was on the board of the Morijuga.
Patrick:Co-operation, wasn't he?
Anthony:Yeah, yeah, yeah. He seemed a bit frustrated at the time.
Patrick:Well, a little bit of frustration is still there. You know in where, I guess, the agreements lie and what sort of constraints are tied to it versus. You know, the back of that economy is booming, so to speak, but not so booming for the you know people.
Anthony:Yeah. What about the World Heritage nomination? How do you feel about that?
Patrick:I think it's been a long time coming, you know, and been waiting for a while, yes, but in terms of you know where they see industry is, it's probably a contentious one. I mean, they want to say, yes, we want the industry to thrive and survive, but you want to try and put this. You know World Heritage status in this place, that's, you know, being overridden or taken over by some of this industry, if you will. How do you? You've got to. Well, I sort of see it as you can't have your cake and eat it.
Anthony:I know it looks like that. Hey, clinton was saying that the Maitlander State is where they can expand. Do you feel that too Well?
Patrick:that's something they've been told and they've been, you know, expressed to say there's no need to put industry there anymore If it cost a few more million dollars to put it down the road. What's a few million dollars which they make billions and billions out of there. You know yeah.
Anthony:And now I see they're actually moving some of those petroglyphs Yep. From the outside that just feels like you're doing what, we're doing what.
Patrick:Well, it's like we say we go to the bloody Sistine Chapel and go put spray paint on there and we draw a rock art on that place. Yeah, you know, because it's sacrilege to us. Yeah, which you'd never fathom.
Anthony:Yeah, yeah. So some of it is hard to believe. And you're right, it's some point. It's got a. I mean, I guess the world heritage judging people will, yeah, express something about that.
Patrick:I'll call it Ford Sound Merits.
Patrick:I guess you know in that sense, and I think you know, if there was to be that hardline conversation, then that's, I think it was what is needed, you know, to make industry and government see for its own merits as well. Yeah, yeah, on one hand you want to say this, you want this and you want to try and push that, but you don't want to let go of this and that and this to say hang on. Well, if that's going to affect this, which comes first? Chicken or the egg? Yeah, 100%.
Anthony:It's interesting when I spoke to our federal MP about this.
Patrick:I asked.
Anthony:Perth in Curtin and she said oh, what can I do? The corporation signed off on it, so that's based in law, that's what we're supposed to follow.
Patrick:And yes, and that's where it gets tricky, hey, because I recently stood up and spoke out about some of that. Really, yeah, where were you? I was one of the I guess you know employees of that place. But I done, yeah, just recently, I guess for those sorts of reasons you know, both ethical and cultural, I couldn't do it anymore either. Yeah, yeah, but I guess they have a board of directors, you know, and a sort of mandate that they follow and obligate to. You know, it's just as much as I say I obligate to in cultural terms.
Anthony:It seems part of the difficulty that there ends up being this board who gets consulted and agreements made with, yes, but that the way the culture works is broader than that.
Patrick:It's totally broader, like if we was to talk about, you know, proper consultations. Well, we need to go talk and consult with them people in the desert and say where they sung and the story of the songs go to. We've got to bring them here to say, hey, what do you follow? Answer our idea on this. They might have a totally different view. We don't know that because we haven't consulted correctly. But the Western way wants just one Western way wants to take in the box to say, yep, that's been done.
Anthony:Well, if we can't go out to the desert every time we want to do so. Yeah, that's it.
Patrick:Yeah, maybe we should it sort of a catch-22, you know, but what do you do is the powers to be and how, things in the way of process, whereas I guess if I had a say a bit more in it, that'd be a different way.
Anthony:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and there's a power, as you say. There's a power in the cultural work you're doing now. It's a different kind of power. Yeah, that's it. It's a big power.
Patrick:And there's something you know that's been grounded in community culture, but also the people. How we do that, you know, is key, but always, as I see, there's always a different lens focused on lots of things, and sometimes the narrative, in the way it gets put out or projected, is often the key. You know where people say yes or no, or maybe or I don't know about this, you know?
Anthony:Totally so. It's where the narrative is so important. No.
Patrick:Yes.
Anthony:Do you get involved much with Next Door?
Patrick:They often try to ask us you know what's happening in the digital lab space? We sort of share a bit some pieces, but I guess for us, you know, having staff like Miss Bodie and Miss Zoe they've sometimes run off their feet with the amount of work and community and people that come in. Yeah, so at times I guess I try to be part of that, help facilitate, but also maintain as well. We need more of the likes of these special people here to do and continue this work.
Anthony:There's an invitation for people to get more involved right around the country.
Patrick:We often do and we often get people and invites from. You know many artists at the moment. You know we've been putting it out, but also getting requests for people to say I want to come work in Robin, I want to do this, I want to do that. So, yeah, very, very different in the way what's needed but also what has been coming.
Anthony:Yeah, yeah, and Kimberley Connections too.
Patrick:Kimberley's. Well, you know, through culture and ceremony we connect right up to that part of the community as well, in regions, and often that's around September to maybe, you know, march time, a lot of that ceremonial culture and songlines, you know, which I see, fortunately, is still rich in our community, and it's something that keeps us driven, you know, but also keeps us connected.
Anthony:Yeah.
Patrick:If we don't have that, we lost a lot of things already. You know like, sadly, I see around some other parts of community or regions. You know like I took a look at some of the metropolitan regions or you know big city regions yeah, they got all the big flash and fancy things, the ways of the world and technology and things, but they got no ceremonies, Some of only just starting to revive it back, bring it back into forms, but you still see all of that changed landscape. If you will, we're out here, you're sitting at the river. You still see the country, open plains, you see everything still rich in the country here. Hopefully we like to keep it that way as long as possible.
Anthony:That's another way you lead the way too, I think, for all of us, frankly, yeah.
Patrick:The thought leaders of the nation.
Anthony:As always, good stuff mate. You can take that off. There's a magnet on the back, it might drop down.
Patrick:Oh, there we go Good.
Anthony:Can you get some rest now?
Patrick:I guess Might have some young people coming in soon. If they come in, we're going to teach them about some of these things, or maybe teach them a song. Might have a little workshop out the back here.
