The RegenNarration Podcast
The RegenNarration podcast features the stories of a generation that is changing the story, enabling the regeneration of life on this planet. It’s ad-free, freely available and entirely listener-supported. You'll hear from high profile and grass-roots leaders from around Australia and the world, on how they're changing the stories we live by, and the systems we create in their mold. Along with often very personal tales of how they themselves are changing, in the places they call home. With award-winning host, Anthony James.
The RegenNarration Podcast
231. A Force for Mending? Reflections from the Regenerate conference & its election-week context
The Regenerate conference in Denver a couple of weeks ago was like no conference I’d experienced in the ‘regen ag’ / food systems space. Such a presence of next generations, women and varied cultures amongst the 500 attendees. And multiple moments of crazy serendipity. It also started the day after the US federal election. So the air was heavy with emotion and uncertainty, when Sarah Wentzel-Fisher, the ED of Quivira Coalition, the primary organising body, opened the conference in tears. It was a unique context to this gathering, a context that also couched some of the most extraordinary stories of regeneration you’re likely to hear in one place.
So, come the last snowed-in day of the conference, I pulled out the mic and recorded four short grabs of 15 to 20 minutes each. I wondered if I might chase more good folk down. I’d had such wonderful conversations with dozens of people. But in the end, this small sample of voices seemed to represent those conversations pretty well. While they were also each notable in some way, offering particular insight about the conference and its election context.
Each guest introduces themselves as we go:
- Anica Wong, Communications Director at Quivira.
- Shumaisa Khan, Carbon Ranch Initiative Manager at Quivira.
- Aria McLauchlan & Harley Cross from Land Core.
- Emma Ractliffe from the Agrarian Futures podcast.
Then we launch into where they’re from, their ancestry, brilliant regenerative work, conference reflections, how it might change what they do, and finally their raw reactions to the election result (and of course their favourite tunes). It resulted in some viscerally felt wisdom for this moment. I also offer a bit more on the conference and surrounding vibe at the start and end of the episode. With thanks to Quivira, HMI and AMA for kindly having me along.
Chapter markers & transcript.
Recorded 8 November 2024.
Title slide (counter-clockwise): Anica, Shumaisa, Emma, Aria & Harley.
For more behind the scenes, become a supporting listener below.
Music:
The RegenNarration podcast is independent, ad-free and freely available, thanks to the generous support of listeners like you. If you too value what you hear, please consider joining them.
- Donate directly to avoid all fees, by heading to the website.
- Donate via PayPal (~10% fees).
- Become a subscribing member to connect with your host, other listeners and exclusive benefits, on Patreon (~15% fees). (NB: if you're using an iPhone, you can avoid Apple's new 30% app store charge by subscribing on your laptop or PC.)
- Become a subscriber on Buzzsprout (15% fees).
- Visit The RegenNarration shop.
- And please keep sharing, rating and reviewing the podcast with friends. It all helps.
Thanks for your support!
Greetings from out in the now mostly bare forest near the Shenandoah River in Virginia, taking some time to process recent events over here, including the few days I spent at the Regenerate Conference in Denver a couple of weeks ago. I'd never experienced a region-oriented conference quite like it, such a presence of next generations, women and varied cultures among the 500 attendees and, yep, multiple moments of crazy serendipity, right from when my all-time favourite song as a 12-year-old in Australia played over the PA at the start of the conference, it was Listen Like Thieves by INXS. In case you're wondering - what were the odds? it all started the day after the US federal election, so the air was heavy with emotion and uncertainty. When Sarah Wentzel- Fisher, the ED of Quivira Coalition, the primary organising body, stepped up to open the conference and spoke eloquently to the elephant in the room. Only a sentence in, she was in tears. That set the tone of openness, honesty and care for the days ahead. It was a unique context to this gathering, a context that also couched some of the most extraordinary stories of regeneration you're likely to hear in one place. So, come the last snowed-in day of the conference, I pulled out the mic and recorded four short grabs of 15 to 20 minutes each, I wondered if I might chase more good folk down. I'd had such wonderful conversations with dozens of people, but in the end, this small sample of voices seemed to represent those conversations pretty well, while they're also each notable in some way, offering particular insight about the conference and its election context.
AJ:G'day, Anthony James, here for the Regeneration Entirely listener-supported media, free of ads and paywalls. That's with thanks to the people who make it possible, like Ruth Seeber and Reuben Parker-G reer. Thanks for both so generously increasing your subscription amounts. And a couple of weeks ago I thanked the very first subscribers this week huge thanks to the kind souls who gifted their support before I was even able to get subscription platforms going, given it was a tough time back then when Dad was dying. Thanks to Susie, Jack, Mat and Tim Bate for your enduring support over four years now. This simply wouldn't be what it is without you. If you're also finding value in this, I'd love you to join a great community of supporting listeners, get exclusive benefits and help keep the show on the road. Just head to the website via the show notes regennarration. com forward slash support. Thanks, as always.
AJ:So, in the midst of a so-called gender election, I weighted this small sample from the conference towards women of diverse ancestry and lives. So you'll hear from four women and one bloke. The first two guests are from Kivira Coalition, the rest attendees. Each guest is from so-called blue states in this election. That wasn't deliberate, but, it's fair to say, I was sensing genuinely into how the people who weren't necessarily enamoured with the result might have been feeling. I emphasise, though, that I didn't ask people how they voted and I'm in no way inferring their preferences on their behalf here. Each guest introduces themselves as we go before we launch, into where they're from, their ancestry, brilliant regenerative work, conference reflections, how it might change what they do and, finally, their raw reactions to the election. It resulted in some viscerally felt wisdom for this moment. Alright, Anica, I'll just get you to introduce yourself.
Anica:Hi, my name is Anica Wong. I am the Communications Director at Quivira Coalition.
AJ:And you're local, right, have you always been local?
Anica:I am currently located in the Denver metro area. I have lived here for about 10 years. My family is from New Mexico and California, and so I have lived in many states around the western United States.
AJ:And what about the broader family story, the ancestry? How much do you know?
Anica:On my dad's side of the family. Some of them immigrated from China to Vancouver and then down into the Bay Area in California. My grandmother's side of the family is from Switzerland, and so they met there in Northern California. My mom's side of the family is very deep into New Mexico's history. They are New Mexicans through and through, definitely some Spanish influence there as well as, at some point down the line, some indigenous blood as well.
AJ:So very, very deep within that culture and that community, community do you relate some of those stories and and history with what you've come to be doing in your life?
Anica:yeah, so my partner and I own an urban farm here in the denver metro area. Both of us had grandparents who were working the land. We didn't necessarily grow up doing that, but we definitely feel like it is a going back to that part of our own history. My grandfather was a firefighter as well as a rancher, and so we saw him doing that as we were growing up. My partner's grandfather was also a cattle rancher, and so he saw that growing up, and so we are a little bit coming back to those roots. Certainly, farming in a major metropolitan area is a little different than running cattle on thousands of acres, but it does feel good to be able to have your hands in the ground, have your hands in the soil and also be able to feed your community and build that community around food and around tending to the land.
AJ:The new American West. Part of the story anyway, isn't it? Definitely. I'm so curious to go on with some of this because some of the story that you told me last night about your project. It's worth a quick summary of.
Anica:Sure, yeah. So Socliff Farm is an urban farm here in the Denver metro area. We started it in 2020, at the beginning of the pandemic, which was very strange and weird and hard and cool all at the same time. We didn't really know what we were doing. We were not farmers. We joke that we didn't really know when to pull a radish out of the ground. That's how newbie we were and we learned. We learned how to do that.
Anica:We slowly expanded the farm footprint over the last four years. We partnered with the WIC program to provide food to women, infants and children who may not have access to healthy food, so we did that. For a few years. We were doing some wholesale to some local partners and our main focus was the farm stand that we did on site, where our local community could come in and they could buy veggies and actually see where those veggies came from.
Anica:One of my favorite parts was somebody wanted some lettuce and I could go across the field and literally cut that lettuce out of the ground and hand it to them and there is something very tangible and beneficial and people seeing that action right Like that lettuce was grown here. You know me. You know what I value and what I stand for, and hopefully you now see the benefits of supporting your local producers in whatever way that looks like, and so it has been definitely a community building aspect as well, and we're just trying to get people to understand that food is important, where food is grown is important and how food is grown is important. It's a long conversation, right?
AJ:this isn't a just like you pop in, you buy a few heads of lettuce and then you leave like I want you to really get it and understand it if ivan was here he could tell us more about the restoration of a neglected house that had sat there for eight years and how you've managed to work in this old town part of Denver if that can be for another day, but you've obviously been part of the organizing team for this. So I guess in you know where the question might be for a punter why are you here? I guess the question I've got for you is how is it panning out for you against the vision of why it's here?
Anica:It's a great question. I think that we are always really excited to bring people who believe in regenerative agriculture together. That is really hard sometimes, right, we are living in pretty disparate worlds these days. If you're a rancher doing regenerative ag in the, you know, eastern plains of Colorado, you may not really have a lot of chances to meet with other people because you're busy and time is very constrained. And how do you find those people? So, regenerate has always been about bringing those people together.
Anica:Kivira, at its core, is about the radical center and how do we talk about hard things with people who are coming at it in different angles? And while the conference certainly has a lot of symmetry and synergy around regenerative ag, there are also people who are coming in wondering are they in the right spot? Do they believe in regenerative ag? Do they want to be doing this? Maybe they don't want to actually be out on the land, but how do they support people who are doing that work? And so, from a standpoint of let's bring people together, but also understand that it is okay if we are coming from different places and that radical center can still be a really meaningful place to have conversations, to try to understand each other to ask questions if you don't understand or if you're just, you know, bringing your curiosity.
Anica:We really value that, and so I think Regenerate this year has been a space for that, and definitely at a time of the world where we are all asking questions and we are all wondering what's next and where are we going from here and how do we as not only organizations who are supporting people doing work, but people who are doing the work how do we do that and how do we move forward?
AJ:Has there been any part that's really stood out for you over these couple of days that will perhaps inform the next phase of your work or maybe even change something significantly.
Anica:Yeah, I don't necessarily know if there's anything that's going to change significantly, but what I have felt this year is that we have a lot of young people in the audience here and I think that that is showing that there is a new generation of people who want to do this work or who are curious about it and wanting to see how they plug into that, and that feels really great.
Anica:That feels like our work at Kivira and the focus that we have on bringing people in and setting them up for success in a somewhat hard field where land access is always an issue and is like one of the biggest issues right now. How they learn to do these things. If they have if they don't have, you know, family ties to it, how do we get them in and how do we say like, come, come with us, we want you to be successful, let's build these programs to help you do that, and so I think having a younger audience here this year especially just feels hopeful and I think that people have seen that, you know, not just from a Kivira standpoint, but I think others in the audience have seen that and and can feel that as well oh, writ large.
AJ:It's been extraordinary, in fact. Across the board this looks like a different conference than I've been to back home in regenerative agriculture, and part of it is the number of young people and part of it is the number of women. It's a women majority even. It looks like it, I guess, on a surface anyway that's a great question.
Anica:I don't have I don't have the the numbers in front of me, but it is certainly something that we, as you knowIPOC community, whether that is women, you know we're all here to do this work and I want you to be here, and so I think that you know, I'm glad that it looks maybe different.
Anica:That is, that's always been one of our goals and we we pride ourselves in being that kind of space where people feel comfortable and welcome and safe to step in and be able to ask the questions. Right, it's one thing for you to be here, but do you feel like you can say like, hey, how do I do that? Or hey, like how did you do that and can you show me? Or I actually have a totally different way that I think might work for me. What do you think? And so, to be able to feel safe enough to ask those questions and engage with other people at a conference like this, instead of just like passively watching and you know, maybe you're taking some stuff home and you're taking some notes, and that's awesome. A conference like that totally fits where it fits, but we want it to be a space where you can jump in, regardless of the experience you have the experience you don't have where you're coming from, what your life journey has brought.
AJ:You probably have something to contribute and we want you to be here yeah, it's a real standout and so has been, in that sense, your focus that's been apparent of how we can work as this micro community, if you will, with values laid out at the start, inclusive mantra everywhere and humility and learning focuses, and for that, the meditation that has kicked off every day, and also Sarah's opening, the ED of the organisation, where emotion surfaced in that, around the week that this lands, in which you know as an outsider, coming in then, even coming across in this election week to the west, back to the west, where we travelled through a bunch of months earlier, was fascinating.
AJ:Coming out of an urban area on the eastern seaboard that is going, what the hell's happening with my country, which is really what the hell's happening with the rural areas of my country, is what they really think, because they don't know, they don't know the people, and I imagined kivira to have a fairly and certainly this area to have a fairly diverse membership. And so I was doubly curious as to how we'd be debriefing in the background of of this conference and for sarah to bring that to the surface at the opening, to acknowledge the heavy emotions that are being felt wherever you, wherever you stand on it was pitch perfect for the moment. I thought and I wonder for you how it feels in this week, right now, and I guess with both hats on, like the personal one but then the organizational one.
Anica:Yeah, you know, I think from the personal side, it can be very easy to get kind of wrapped up in worry and in contemplation and in concern about what happens next. I think what is really great about this group of people, and about people who work the land in general, is that you have something to look at, literally in front of you that needs to be tended to, whether that is cattle, whether that is you're starting to wean your goats, whether that is well, uh, I was gonna plant some garlic, uh, but now we have three feet of snow and I can't do that. And so what can we do as a community in front of us right now and we I think this group is really good at that and at saying there's a lot happening, and we get that. We live in a world that a lot is always happening. How do we take care of each other? How do we take care of the things that we can control right here in our own neighborhoods, in our own communities, in our own households, and let's continue to do that work.
Anica:From a standpoint of Kivira, we are not a policy organization, we don't kind of wade into too much of that, but I think it's very similar in that we're going to continue to do the work. We will continue to show up to ranchers and farmers who are wanting to make their land more rejuvenated, more profitable, more holistically, better. We will be there. We're going to be there, we're going to have the resources for you, we're going to support you, we're going to connect you with who you need to be connected with or help you get to the right spot, and that work will continue regardless of what is happening in the White House. It might look a little different, it might feel a little different, the money sources might be different, but we are community and education focused, and that, I don't think, will ever change.
AJ:Do you feel any personal vulnerability, if that's the word? You hear a lot about the gender dynamic around the election, even that it was a men versus women election, I've heard. I don't know how much credence I put in it, but I'm curious for you do you feel any extra layer with that?
Anica:Yeah, I mean, I think that there is so much these days that can feel really targeted toward groups of people who are underserved and who are on the margins, and I think that that is you can't deny that, there is no denial of that um, and it can feel heavy these days, have had heavy feelings to them. Uh, I feel like especially. You know colorado is known for having. However, however, you know, 350 days of sun, and this conference has had maybe five to ten minutes of sun, and that is very unusual in Colorado. Usually it's going to snow and then the sun is going to come out and maybe it snows again, but the sun's going to come out.
Anica:I'm not saying the weather is certainly aligned with, maybe, how I personally feel, but it is interesting and it does play a role in just, obviously, how people exist in their bodies. I am choosing to move forward and to say here we are and what can I do now? What's the next step? What needs to be done? How can I take care of my community? How can I take care of my household and my little plants outside? Or, you know, for other people here in the group, how can they tend to their cattle? How can they tend, to the land that they have and that feels helpful and meaningful right now.
AJ:Thanks so much for going there with me, Annika. It's funny with the weather I felt that too.
Anica:It's so snowed in it's so snowed in and dark and dark. It is like physically it is is dark and that is very unlike Colorado there we go.
AJ:For me it's had the other side of as an Australian, feeling like it's Christmas. It's been absolutely novel and beautiful and amazing. But I've felt the other stuff too. Before I leave you, what is a piece of music that's been a real standard bearer or favorite go back to during your life?
Anica:that's so funny, you ask. I was just talking to somebody, um, and I would be curious as to if, if I fall as an outlier. I am actually not a huge music person. Um, I do not mind sitting in a silent room where a lot of people like have a really hard time doing that I am. So we have a great jazz radio station here in Denver, community radio station, and we have that on a lot and it is just, I think, a reminder that it doesn't need to be loud, it doesn't need to be crazy, I don't need to necessarily like feel it deep inside of me here in the united states and and let's keep playing it, let's just keep having it on the radio and just like we're listening, we're enjoying it, it feels good and we're moving. We're moving forward so well said.
AJ:It is part of what strikes me about this country, having traveled it for this year, large part of this year. So much beauty and magic has emerged from it and continues to, and you've just encapsulated it. What a perfect way to win.
Anica:Thanks a lot and again, and thanks for having me of course, thank you, thanks for being here, thanks for being interested. I mean, I think it's it's really cool to again to have people come and say like, yeah, this is cool, I want to be part of it. So thank you for being here brilliant.
Shumaisa:Hi, I'm Shamasa Khan. I am, yeah, I'm at Kavira. I am coordinating a USDA project. It's in this big sort of stream called Partnerships for Climate Smart Commodities.
AJ:Yes, it's a mouthful. Yeah, and I've heard a bit about it, and there's more information online about that too, where people can chase it up For this little conversation. Are you local, are you one of the ones that live around here, or where are you based?
Shumaisa:I live in New Mexico, where Kavira's office is based in what's now called Santa Fe, in Tewa language Ogapogue.
AJ:And your broader ancestral story. How much do you know?
Shumaisa:My grandparents were all from India and they had to migrate during partition, so my parents were born in Pakistan and I was born here, well, in New York, new York.
AJ:So that's where they arrived. Yeah, then they came to the West, or that was your journey.
Shumaisa:That was my journey last year. I came from England actually, so I'm skipping over some parts.
AJ:Yeah no doubt. So you'd been in England for 16 years, or something you said, and you came back the year a year and a half ago and decided to come to the West. Was that for the work or something else?
Shumaisa:It was, yeah, the job brought me over, but I had always well, I had long been interested in the Southwest and the Northwest. But I ended up meeting my husband, who's British, and one of us had to go somewhere, so I ended up there, and so it's kind of both. I was wanting to come back to Turtle Island and I got this job and yeah, so I finally got my chance to be in the southwest.
AJ:Beautiful. I'm immediately moved to ask as much, because it's moved me this part of the world and down through New Mexico what the essence is that you've gravitated to.
Shumaisa:So before I went to England I think my interest in both the northwest and the southwest probably partly was around like presence of indigenous, I mean their, their presence is in different parts of of this land and country, but those two struck out to me and natural kind of landscapes and after living in England for 16 years I sort of ruled out the Northwest, even though I still want to go there and spend some time there. But I was like, yeah, I've had it with the particular climate but also I want to. There's this kind of circuitous connection for me also with the acequias here and that you know, trace back to Moorish traditions that were brought into Spain and some years ago I went to Spain and saw the acequias there and there's a culture and tradition here that's kind of a mix of local and colonizers bringing it from Spain and yeah, so a bunch of things.
AJ:Yeah, it's fascinating. And onto this particular event, obviously you're part of the organizing or one of the organizing organizations, so I'm curious for you what it means for you personally to be hosting an event like this. And then, what stood out to you, what's moved you perhaps?
Shumaisa:um. So the organizing I mean I'm not as involved as other people from my organization but, um, yeah, it's really interesting the kinds of people it brings together, like from indigenous to ranchers, like all kinds of people. And you know they all have this shared passion for land care and their communities. And as somebody involved in the organizing, I often don't engage as much as I'd like to with the, with the sessions, but it's nice to bump into people and meet people.
AJ:Um, sometimes, I think often for me that's like the richest part of any kind of gathering is the in-between um sessions, kind of magical moments and like, like with us too yeah, it's been true for me and yeah, with our meeting yesterday as a case in point, do you have a sense of the importance or the value of that, how it translates to what you've ended up doing in your life?
Shumaisa:the event or the like, these kinds of probably in general, given what you said before. Yeah, I think. So maybe, going back back to your asking about this particular one and this week, like, for example, I first I hadn't really seen anyone know like it was, just it was speaking to like the value of these kinds of things is like that can happen, you know, and it's like just by being in the same physical space, energetic space.
Shumaisa:There's something, um, there's just something. I don't really even have words for it. It's just kind of like it seems like important to be colliding into the breadth of humanity. Like, to the extent that we can Like you know, it's limited by being in this country. I'm not going to collide with somebody in another continent necessarily. Well, well well, as I speak like we are, but, you know, like some indigenous person from like the remote parts of um somewhere else.
Shumaisa:But like I think that's a really valuable thing, and even though I didn't necessarily have a conversation with this person, I would have liked to, but it's not to be like forced, it's just like something probably wouldn't I don't know when that would have happened that I would have encountered like a like that particular encounter well, it's something that I imagined coming in that there must be some spread here and in the membership and, of course, this lands in the week of the election.
AJ:How is it for you? How do you feel here and now, as that's the backdrop to this event?
Shumaisa:So we actually drove up from New Mexico Wednesday morning early and and then we were all kind of reflecting that it was, it's it, it was a. It was a nice distraction to not really and I still haven't had time to like dig into things and numbers and process and all that, I'm sure, raging debates and blaming and all kinds of things that are probably happening. So there's that kind of like almost relief that we just busy with that or here just all day doing that and not having time to really process much. And I guess, yeah, at some level I was also aware that this is brings, you know, all kinds of people here and curious about like how that would go. But yeah, I think you know it's like it got. It goes as it always goes. People are here for the reasons that they come here and I don't I think they compartmentalize whatever else.
AJ:Maybe they wouldn't necessarily if we were meeting in other circumstances, but yeah, I was telling you yesterday I mean, this is some of what we found going across the country that if you can meet in circumstances that are amenable to connecting, it can set up the other tougher stuff in a much better way than obviously you can play it on the tv, so to speak, and so it's been a standout experience how what we've experienced has differed from that. Yet here we are with a particular election result, and some of the narratives are, of course, the vulnerability that that places potentially on minorities, women, et cetera. Does that carry a particularly acute edge for you?
Shumaisa:Yeah, yeah, I mean, even though I said when, it's true, I haven't really dug in too much, which is likely going to happen after I put this behind me next week, I do.
AJ:I am aware that that's happening and I am in one of the, you know, one of the identity groups, or more than one, that is going to be bearing the brunt, or is bearing the brunt, of some of the blame and, um, yeah, so yeah it's interesting from our chat yesterday, like, being in that position, you're still carrying an awareness of a context that speaks to a bigger picture, if that's the way to put it, where you know, when we talk about the potential to connect across divides in places like this and how it can happen really quite beautifully, that that prospect is still alive and that there are, I guess, other contextual, systemic factors that can impinge on that or encourage it.
AJ:So I'm really curious as to how you're viewing that bigger picture, some of that bigger picture we talked about yesterday. That, I guess, can give some pointers to how I mean all of us, but people in your situation too potentially what to hold on to, what to look at perhaps where just come into humility and gratitude and looking at disasters from COVID to the different ones happening right now in this country and other countries like that always brings people together and people aren't going to be checking like what's your what?
Shumaisa:who did you vote for, before offering help.
Shumaisa:It's just generally for most of humanity that they will.
Shumaisa:Thankfully, that instinct is wired in to just show up and and do and even risk your own health or life to like, um, it's just more of an automatic response, I think, and I think the humility piece is really important in understanding that we're all in some way I'm thinking in the in in terms of this just election but we're all monsters in some way and to demonize, well, how did that person or group or groups vote in this way or didn't vote or whatever?
Shumaisa:But we did it this way because in our paradigm or value system, x like less of a priority, and you know this is more of a priority and it's just like that's real and also what other people are thinking and their worldview is also real and just the materiality of, like the basics of people, what they need to survive, and also like live in a with dignity, like that, I think, is something to come back to. And yeah, those are, those are the like things going in my head, like humility that the monsters are also in us, they're not always just like outside of us, also the light too, you know, like we have all of these, and I think of the yin and yang symbols, you know with the dot in the middle and yeah, yeah, I couldn't agree more.
AJ:As beautifully said, I think I was telling you yesterday briefly about some of the stories I've encountered coming across the states, and the one the dirt road organising one that has found reconnecting with people in constituencies that the Democratic Party had given up on and left in rural America. Reconnecting in a direct fashion in this way really has worked politically as well. They've been elected and it does make me wonder why, and particularly potentially off the high watermark in some ways of grassroots organizing that was the obama thing back in 2008 and so many books written about that. This is how we can connect back with real people on the ground in ways that are humble and driven by dignity, universally appreciated all that sort of stuff and why I observed that not happening this time and almost seeming to be, in some ways, a predictable outcome of that, and it confused me. But you had some insights that I really appreciated on that level that I hadn't heard about, why that grassroots organizing thrust that seemed to be working has been left behind by the Democratic Party.
Shumaisa:And then I think that the trend and then it was kind of resurrected in 2016 with Sanders campaign and then in the UK you know we had Corbyn and but that it was so effective because that was such a multiracial, multigender kind of movement and funding of the Sanders campaign and prior to that, the early Obama ones and this one and and subsequent ones after 2016, there's so much. There was a movement away from that and towards more bigger donors and you know, anyone, including us, if we were to run and be funded by special interests, we're going to be beholden to them like your intentions are one thing and like reality and expectations and delivering is another thing. So here, um, and the kinds of people taken to campaign by the democrats in this time around and I think over-reliance on celebrity, both political celebrities and celebrity celebrities, wasn't really meeting where people are and yeah, I think it
Shumaisa:was not completely shocking and people you know it isn't. I, I think. To be told that you're not like, look, we, um, did this and that and it's not that they're probably. You know there aren't measures taken over the course of a four-year term, but an effective like strategy, keeping in mind the constraints of whatever legislature and etc. Like that story of like and strategy isn't there. And to be told people being told like you're not really, you're not experiencing hardship because we did this, so this is all wrong. Like our polling is saying this, our experts are saying this, but your reality of not being able to pay rent, not being able to buy homes, not being able to afford an education, not being able to afford food, you're all wrong, or a bunch of you are wrong. You know that's not really effective.
AJ:Even here, you know, with our land access barrier, like it's sort of taken as a given and a lot of people are working at how to help young people certainly, but not only minorities to get back the land they were taken, etc. Etc. That that's such a given and persistent barrier. It's so shared, that experience and it's not shifting. So and it shifting and it wasn't spoken to terribly well. So yeah, I guess you know full circle. It really accentuates the value of these kinds of events and, for that matter, in these kinds of places, I think, and for that matter, for people like me who can meet rural Americans in this case. But this whole podcast came out of meeting rural Australians and trying to get to know my country in reality on the ground. I hear the microphones going. We need to go join the crowd, but before we go, I'm really grateful for your time. Thanks a lot, shemana.
Shumaisa:Thank you, it was really nice. Yeah, delighted to share.
AJ:Really nice and I'd love to close with this, and I'd love to close with this with you, a piece of music that perhaps has been significant in your life, maybe even right now, in whatever fashion, what might come to mind?
Shumaisa:there's this, um I am not going to butcher the Arabic of of it, but there's this uh, beautiful Palestinian um woman who's developed trauma work for that context, which is very different from general kind of trauma because it's continuous and it was in featured in the sand podcast and I cannot remember the name, but it's it's just very beautiful and uplifting. Yeah, it's just beautiful.
AJ:All right, let's start with you. Aria, do you want to introduce yourself?
Aria:Yes, hi, my name is Aria McLaughlin. I am the co-founder and executive director of a non-profit called LandCorp, focused on soil health.
Harley:I'm Harley Cross.
AJ:I am also the co-founder of LandCorp and I am our director of strategy and, to be clear, you're partners in more ways than one life partners too. Where are you both from?
Aria:Well, with the twinge of an accent. I grew up and went to school in Australia, australian father, and was born in Northern California and based not too far from where I was born now in Grass Valley in the Sierra foothills.
AJ:Amazing.
Harley:Yeah, I have a little bit less of an interesting parental background, but I was born here in the States, but I did spend a bunch of years in France growing up. So in addition to going to school on the East Coast, I ended up in California as well, where Ari and I connected.
AJ:There we go and broader ancestral stories. What do you know?
Aria:There we go and broader ancestral stories. What do you know? Well, I happen to have a good one for this On the Australian side. My, I think, sort of seven times great-great-great-great grandparents were the Kavanaughs and, going back to the convict ships, my grandmother was convicted of stealing silver spoons and my great-great-great-great great-great-grandfather was a sailor on one of those early ships, and so they, they met and then kind of made a life out here. So interesting to have roots that are both settler, colonial, and then also, you know, on one side of that equation was, was not sent here by, by choice, um, so I'm quite cognizant of the, the impact, um and opportunity and and all of the, the weird, um, weird and wonderful impacts that that's had even wonderful.
AJ:All right, wow, that is amazing. And you, holly? Well, I have nothing anywhere.
Harley:Nearly as interesting, I'm a proper American mutt, so I have some mixed European ancestry. I guess my grandfather on my father's side was the first born in the US of nine children in New York, and on my mother's side I don't think they were here that much longer than my father, to be perfectly honest, but she was less close to her family. And where did they come from? My mother's side were Swiss-German and my father's Jewish, and his family was Eastern European mostly.
AJ:I'm always curious about this. Is there anything about what you know about your families that you can map through to what has become of your lives and what you're doing?
Aria:I guess there's a couple of threads. On my mother's side. My grandmother and her mother, their families, lived in rural Kansas and I think that you don't have to go too far back. A to connect to agricultural roots, I think for many of us is one thing but also, you know, just like the hollowing out of a place like Kansas, the way that sort of agricultural consolidation has taken place, where the sort of like get bigger, get get out, did impact, um, I think even my relatives not going too far back. So it's interesting to understand that there are some uh real connections to to why we do this work. You know that I think a bunch of us are came to this work because of the impact on on land and soil and water and planet. But I personally have kind of stayed for the people, came for the planet and stayed for the people. And yeah, you don't have to go too far back to feel the impact on our relatives.
AJ:Yeah, fascinating, harley, you. Yeah, thank you for shutting the door. It's made the world of difference.
Harley:I mean, I have to say that this is a little outside of, uh the projected path that I thought I might be on when I met aria, uh the idea of soil and soil health as being something that was integral to, uh the world that I had any association to. To say that it was unexpected that this was the space I would fall into is an understatement. That said, I have this side of my life that has been associated to business and brand and all of these other very practical enterprises, and there was something so pragmatic about soil and soil health and the impacts that it had on the economics and the viability and the security of the nation and all of these sort of things that I don't feel are particularly well represented by a lot of the folks who are in the space. It started a conversation between Ari and I that ultimately ended in Lancor.
AJ:All right, let's get a bit more meat on those bones. How did it form and what have you ended up trying to pull off?
Aria:Well it formed. I think, really in our conversations about I was doing more advocacy-focused work about the power and promise of soil as a solution to so many of the things that we care about. But especially in those days we're talking 2015 at the time there was a bit of asking producers to make these very enormous and real changes to the both their business and their practices without really clear economic incentives and just without better kind of making the economic case for them was something that we said this is wonderful work, we want to continue it, but we really feel like there needs to be more infrastructure in place and we need to establish a lot more economic incentives for producers. So that was kind of the impetus for the work. And then I'll say that we had the good fortune of being pretty well plugged into the movement, or at least having a reasonably good sense of the landscape, and so we could see where there was some great work happening and then also just some missing infrastructure.
Aria:And we were able to kind of glom on to the US Department of Agriculture and even this agency, the Natural Resources Conservation Service. We're like this is an agency entirely focused on soil, entirely focused on soil In the US. It's a quote-unquote tiny agency in that there's only 10,000 employees and offices in almost every county we were like, oh, this is quite a this is an amazing thing that we could sort of build on. So we kind of found ourselves in the realm of federal policy, both in terms of that existing infrastructure within the USDA as well as, I think, just sort of a broader belief and understanding that federal policy, especially here in the US, determines so much of what we grow and how we grow it. So we just felt like it was really important, if we were interested in making changes to the food and ag system, that we needed to be involved in federal policy.
AJ:Have there been standard experiences so far, Harley, that you would draw on by way of helping listeners get a feel for what it means on the ground for you on a day-to-day level?
Harley:Well, I mean, I think our experience on the ground is very different from the producer's experience on the ground, and we do the producer's experience on the ground and we do our best as an organization to represent the producer and the interests in DC at the federal policy level, where they often don't have the scale of voice that they might need, especially as it relates specifically to soil health, which is not a particularly flashy or exciting talking point but in reality is the foundation of every single farm out there. Nobody is growing it. Well, I don't want to say nobody, because nowadays there are some people growing things in water and other things like that, but for the most part, farmers are rooted in soil and if we overlook that essential resource on behalf of the farmer, I think we're doing a real disservice to the agricultural state.
AJ:So then, what brings you here, to this event?
Aria:Well, we're here at Kavira and at the Regenerate or the Kavira Regenerate Conference is how we think about it. We had the good fortune of being introduced to what has now sort of unfolded as a real community of I call them our Southwest soil health folks. They're our funders, supporters and really just a beautiful kind of grassroots network of community that we wanted to reconnect with. So, yeah, I think we just wanted to touch base with this kind of corner of the country. This group does a really good job of bringing in young folks, young agrarians, as you know very well, and so it's really inspiring to get a sense of the challenges and the way that they're overcoming them. So this is kind of a refresh and recharge conference as much as anything for us.
AJ:Has anything stood out.
Harley:I mean, I think, as Aria was saying, for us this is a place where we can reconnect with people. For us, this is a place where we can reconnect with people, and I think the thing that stands out is seeing what a remarkably good job they're doing at bringing new young producers into the space, understanding the opportunities that there are, not just from a philosophical perspective, but from an economic perspective, from a resilience perspective, and what the long term can be if we do this right.
Aria:The other thing I've noticed that gives me a lot of hope, and I'm even a little bit proud about, is seeing the extent to which the conversation about policy has expanded. You know there were like three or four workshops focused on policy here at this event. I think more and more folks are kind of rolling up their sleeves and realizing that this isn't something to just leave to other folks, but something that we all want to be engaged in. So I really commend folks for leaning into that. Sometimes it can be a hard conversation. We'll get folks being like oh good for you that you're working on policy and actually I see more and more folks getting more and more educated and involved, which is cool.
Harley:And it's also really nice to see this as one of the foundationally nonpartisan places in American politics. There aren't too many places anymore where you can really sit down with anybody and, regardless of what your background is or what your philosophies are, you can look at soil health and understand that this is an economic issue that is at the backbone of how we eat, how we live, how we want our future to be, and it's really I think that it's one of the things that makes me most optimistic about where we are that, regardless of where you come from, you can see yourself in the work that we do.
AJ:That's well said and it's the perfect segue to the context of the week that we find ourselves in now. Firstly, how do you feel about it? How has it landed with you and how do you anticipate it affecting your work and maybe this broader?
Harley:scene. I think it's really important for us to always look at the next administration coming in as an opportunity. You know these are going to be people that we're going to partner with over the coming years and I know that a lot of people have very strong emotional investment in one outcome or the other. And, as an organization, land Corps has a unique position of being optimistic about whoever is coming in. There are a lot of people who are thinking about regenerative agriculture in the new administration, which is unusual, and we really look forward to working with them and trying to, you know, have some really exciting outcomes.
AJ:It's interesting. I've heard in some of the sessions a sense that this could be quite a thrusting moment for regenerative agriculture, given that yeah, I mean it.
Aria:It is a little uh hard to say, of course, for sure, but I I think, as harley said straight out, we've seen uh, soil, health and regenerative ag and food as medicine be centered as as concepts that are important, and that was a little bit more on the campaign trail, but at this stage we haven't. I think there's every reason to expect that that will at least be sort of a part of the conversation, and that's quite interesting. We've founded our organization actually, in regard, started in January of 2017, which was the beginning of the last Trump administration, and so we've now been doing this work for eight years straight and across two quite different presidential administrations and the changes that come and go with Congress, so it is, remarkably, one of those issue areas where I think there can be progress that's made and that's we're quite lucky in that regard yeah, it's fascinating knowing that for some they're so anxious at this time, and for a whole bunch of other reasons as well, of course.
AJ:But it's fascinating to hear that duration of your operation and the experiences you've had which have shown nuance to how these things play out. That seems to be I don't know, it's partly why I said before I wanted to circle back to you. It seems to be an important message right now I think of us as being extraordinarily lucky.
Harley:there's no room that I go into in DC where I feel like we have to hide something. I think that most people are thinking about things in terms that somebody is going to lose, and when we come to the table, I think that everybody's going to win. You know there is. If you are looking at this from a purely fiscal, conservative perspective, there is an opportunity to reduce the cost for the farmer at every step of the way, reduce the involvement of government at every step of the way, and that this is just an opportunity space. At the same time, if you're looking at it from an agroecological or even like environmental perspective, you can see this as a huge opportunity to sequester carbon. There are any number of reasons why this works in an environmental perspective, and so you really have both sides of this divide that are really meeting in this place where everybody wins it makes me wonder I've wondered it before.
AJ:It makes me wonder could it even be a force for mending?
Aria:I mean it. It is a little bit of a trope, but I think there's a lot of truth in that.
Aria:Soil is our common ground absolutely yeah and you know, I think've you see it play out every day across the landscape in Australia and it is true across. You know this incredible diversity of landscapes and production types and, frankly, you know political beliefs. You know I have incredible friendships with farmers and ranchers and even just different organizations where you know our personal lives and our politics are probably quite a bit different, um, but we are able to to come together and so that's yeah, it's really it's fortunate and there there is something there oh, it's great to speak to you both.
AJ:Thanks for doing this with me. I really appreciate it and I want to sign off, actually, as if we were a radio program. We're going out with a piece of music. If you collectively gravitate to a piece of music, what would it be?
Harley:That's a very difficult question. You can ask me anything you want about policy.
AJ:There we go. If you want to ask me about music.
Harley:I feel like I've got a lot of gaps. We're talking polarizations, that's right, why don't you? Ask me something so political.
Aria:There we go. Gosh, I'm coming up totally blank. There must be some punny great thing that we can.
Harley:I don't know.
Aria:Australia give me a home among the countries. Yeah, get me a home among the gum trees. Yeah, it's some blend of take me home country road.
AJ:That's come up more than once on this podcast.
Harley:No, I mean, I think that all those classics that imbue that old connection of all people, I think that the thing that connects people and the music that connects people is really important and I think that all of those songs of that era that kind of transcend anything that we can put in a box today that make people feel like they're in this group or in that group. But anything that unifies works for me.
AJ:That is beautiful Full stop.
Aria:Thanks guys, Thanks so much.
AJ:Let's start with your introduction.
Emma:All right, well, my name is Emma Ratcliffe. I am British-American but grew up in France. My dad was a biodynamic vegetable farmer, so grew up in rural France it's called Auvergne, very, very rural. It's kind of like the Wisconsin of France and I spent quite a bit of time professionally working with smallholder farmers in Egypt and India before coming back to the US about four years ago, did my MBA and for the last three years have been basically working in different capacities, kind of at the intersection of finance and regenerative organic agriculture, so working with investors and funds that are investing into organic agriculture and farmers that need access to capital for land and infrastructure and growing their business.
AJ:All right, let's back up before we go forward. Do you know further back in your family lineage? By any chance?
Emma:I do. On my mom's side, my ancestors way back moved to Boston in the late 1700s and then moved up to Ithaca, upstate, new York, in search for land because it was getting too crowded in the Boston area and were farmers for several generations up there and eventually became the owner of the general store in the town that to this day is still called. On that side my family is called Biggs, so to this day you can still see the old family thing and eventually got a scholarship to college my great great grandfather and then that's when they kind of moved down to New York City area and that's kind of when we lost our connection to a more rural setting. I guess, if you were on my mom's side, on my dad's side, british. So we've traced it back many, yeah quite a ways. It seems like we were generally in the Welsh area and you know more typical British.
AJ:Going back a fair while.
Emma:Going back a fair while yeah.
AJ:Can you do, you feel like you can, map on any of those ancestral stories to what you've ended up doing in this moment?
Emma:Yeah, that's a good question. I mean, I think, if you take it back far enough, of course, anyone, like almost everyone, has a kind of farming, agrarian connection. I think for us, like I mentioned, we kind of lost that, but my parents are really the ones that regained it. My dad was a first generation farmer and my mom was working in New York City and decided to quit her job and move to upstate New York where she met my dad. So for them it was kind of like a refinding of kind of like a lost past. So I think for me, I directly tie my experience more to my parents and growing up in a very rural setting in France, in a very agrarian community, most of our neighbors were either cattle, cattle farmers, shahuli, or small-scale diversified vegetable and fruit farmers.
AJ:I have to ask as well what took you to? Where did you say India and?
Emma:India and Egypt.
Emma:Yeah, um, so do you know Vandana Shiva in India?
Emma:So, um, basically, kind of just spur of the moment, just inspiration, in college I was going to do in the US you typically do your like very conventional internship, your junior summer and then that becomes your job and most people do very kind of boring things like consulting, banking.
Emma:And I kind of just last minute decided I'd been following Vandana Shiva for a while Like I mean she's very famous in the food system space, vinashiva for a while, like I mean she's very famous in the food system space and just decided to reach out to her organization and I ended up getting a kind of scholarship from my college to go there and spent a summer in India working with her and her team, and then that just kind of led me down a spiral of really learning about all the issues that the political, economic issues that surround the food system and the green revolution and the seeds and the patenting and the GMOs and all of that, and then went back there for a few more times, spent time in Ladakh in the Himalayas, and from there basically was looking to kind to deepen that same type of experience.
Emma:I'd also studied Middle Eastern studies and so ended up finding a job in Egypt, which was working for an organic food distribution company that sources from organic farmers and is trying to build a kind of market for organically grown food there you go, don't hear much about Egypt in this space.
AJ:That's very interesting Something to go on with another day. Why did you come to this particular event?
Emma:So when I came back to the US, I spent some time traveling around the country and spent some time on some ranches in Montana that had some Kavira apprentices on it. So through that I kind of got introduced to this kind of scene and just really loved the people. I mean, I think the apprentices if you've had any time to talk to them, are just some of the most inspiring, passionate people that you could imagine and just really just incredible people to be around, um and to learn from, because they're they're really the ones that have, uh, sacrificed a lot to really do what they think is right on the ground.
AJ:So it's a good way to put it too what has really, I guess, aside from that, yeah, which no doubt has resonated resonated? I've heard it from more than one person, even in these little grabs, that that's been a standout feature of the event.
Emma:For you what's been a standout agriculture or certain practices, but more around like broader societal challenges that kind of surround our current food system and kind of seeing how that conversation, even from when I came here two years ago to today is is evolving in terms of kind of, yeah, understanding how, I would say, moving our food system towards something better. It's really not about practices, I think, or at least that's what I've learned from being in the spaces but it's more about thinking about our economic system, our political system, ownership, commoditization of land, all these kind of culture, what we value as people, all these kind of broader issues that really all manifest in in the in the food system any wonder we came to meet each other at podcast corner here.
AJ:That I'm glad we did too, and you've started your own. Let me get that in there straight away. What's it called again?
Emma:agrarian futures agrarian futures.
AJ:One to look. I'm looking forward to listen. Have you got a sense in this moment of how being here and feeling some of that will shape your next steps?
Emma:that's a good question. Um, well, I think I've been in this space for a while at this point and and and I think it's what motivated to work on what I'm working now, which is around this kind of land cooperative, so figuring out a kind of alternative model for land ownership, which is one of the things that you probably have heard come up a lot in this conference land access, all that kind of stuff in this podcast yeah, I mean it's just key yeah so.
Emma:So I think that that just kind of reaffirms, you know what I was already trying to do. But I think being here just for me was also a good reminder of, um, I think it's easy for me, not being directly a farmer, to kind of get caught up in like computer work and like systems kind of stuff. But I think it was a good reminder that ultimately, um, we need to learn first from farmers and what they have to say, and that, um, it would behoove me well, if I want to in any way do something that's good, to kind of always make the effort to like stay connected to farmers by talking to them regularly, by visiting, by listening to what they have to say. So I think just a good reminder of of, like, the need to be farmer first and the wisdom of farmers over anyone else, I think.
AJ:I couldn't agree more. Yep, that's been a key driver for me, even in this work, and the context this event lands in, of course, is a particular week, an election week. How is this sinking in for you?
Emma:yeah. So I tend to be a little bit I'll just give you my raw, you know, thank you. Not politically correct, maybe answer um, um, so I, like maybe some other people, I tend to be quite cynical about the role of the federal system and who's elected making an impact. So I think, if you look in my personal opinion, if you look at Bush, obama, trump, biden, I don't think that much changes. So I think every four years we have this huge drama around like which of these two politicians we will elect. But if you look at what happens, it's kind of the same thing, like military involvement, deporting people, like the same trends are continuing no matter who is elected. So for me it's not a big surprise and I don't think it changes anything. I think that we're headed in a direction that unfortunately isn't good, but I don't think that election really changes anything. I think that, also, from a food system perspective, it's a little bit more nuanced than what people think.
Emma:I am personally in no ways a supporter of trump. I think his kind of his language is appalling, considering the history of our country and everything we've gone through. Um, I think that on the food system front, because of kind of the way he's had to bring together a coalition. There's actually some weird potential promise. There's been rumors that Thomas Macy might be the head of the USDA, which would be insane if that actually happens, and rumors of Joel Salatin being an advisor. I mean that's pretty. If you look at that within the broader context of the US, that's pretty unprecedented. I mean, it's usually executives at Monsanto. There's a very extensive revolving door with big industries. So yeah, I don't know, it's hard to say, but I think, yeah, I'm not distraught. I think that it was kind of expected and that you'd kind of never know what direction it could go in.
AJ:And, as a young woman, is there an edge around that for you, given what you've said about Trump and we know part of it relates to women Is there an edge around that? Or that too, you sort of feel it's part of this bigger picture?
Emma:Yeah Well. So I'm quite anti the American empire. So in a weird sense at least with Trump, the image we are projecting to the world is kind of the ugly truth of what we are, you know, in a weird way, so big picture. Maybe that's good for the world. For us, you know, like to not be able to project this false image of, you know, of liberalism and democracy. Of course, as a woman I'm not happy to have, you know, someone with Trump and his language represent me. But I would have to say that Kamala Harris, not particularly on the issue of women but on the issue of race, even though she is of color, has not been very good herself. She, like as a prosecutor in L in LA, was notoriously tough on crime. Of course Biden himself, you know, has been extensively involved in the writing into law the crime bill in the 1990s under Clinton that is, you know, responsible for putting one in five African Americans behind closed bars.
AJ:Um, the alternative wasn't great yeah, listening to you speak it also makes me think, like going back to what you said about farmer led, like, keep in touch with farmers, like it's the farmland that turns red on the voting maps, right? So there's something else that you seem passionate about that transcends these divides. Is that true? There's a way to connect with people that doesn't get or perhaps even relates on the things you're saying. Is that true? Or or at least that it's not derailed by feeling differently about this?
Emma:yeah, yeah, I mean I've I've traveled quite a bit over the last few years through traditional row crop areas of the US Minnesota, nebraska and Missouri and I was always surprised by how welcoming but also open and thoughtful people were in terms of the conversations that we have like.
Emma:If you like, in in the media, you kind of hear of this like very polarized situation and you kind of there's this image painted of, you know, these rural people that are just crazy racist, um, and on the ground, I mean, I was actually very, actually very shocking and surprised to see people like wanting to have a dialogue with me. We disagreed on certain issues, but then there was a lot of common ground, a lot more common ground than I would expect, and I think the common ground was around a feeling that the elite don't represent us, a feeling that, um, rural areas have been left behind and and a desire to come together, you know, and and and this divisiveness, um. So, yeah, I I think I was always very surprised by how different it was from what you would think it was in the media couldn't have said it better.
AJ:Same. Yeah, it's partly why. Yeah, well, exactly, I've been seven months across this country and six years across australia. I mean, I traveled australia a lot before, but part of the idea of this podcast and a shift in my life was because I really I didn't know the people. In fact, I'd avoided the people, partly because of the stereotype, partly because I just so many fences, which I still actually am dismayed about, but that that's a. I mean, that's where I get really interested in the buffalo return story that's emerging now.
AJ:It's been part of this conference too, where the indigenous folk are coming back and into connection with areas with we call them, white fellows in australia. It's the language back home that some of this excites me, because the lockout that I guess it's the enclosure thing, yeah, but that always I mean I can, I can intellectualize it now, articulate it now. As a younger guy I couldn't and I just thought I was frustrated by that and I was seeking places I could just move into, explore into, um, feel wilderness, feel an essence of being alive, essentially. So all this is a bigger story, but it's come to the same impression and including across this country this year. I almost couldn't have said it better. We could go on and probably add some layers and compare some notes, but I couldn't have said it better. That's the nutshell of what we've observed and experienced as well. Yeah, which is interesting to have had this both of us.
AJ:Then this experience of being and certainly I was a city dweller absolutely I didn't come up on a farm at all, even to know these people in a direct way, to not be left on the coasts of this country right now, wondering who the hell people are in these states that we're amongst right now, and the stereotypes and the TV portrayals do not capture what we're finding. It's partly why I've got this passion for media. That does go there and the fact that you're doing your own version too. I yeah, full circle back to that. It's terrific to see. Thank you, emma. I really appreciate you spending the time and your insights. Your own version too, I yeah, full circle back to that. It's terrific to see. Thank you, emma. I really appreciate you spending the time and your insights, and I'm wondering what piece of music you're going to send us out with can I?
Emma:um? So I did not prepare for the question you're putting me on the line, but, but what came to mind, I you know, right now is, um, I grew up listening to a lot of like Johnny Cash and John Baez and I don't know. I think there's something that right now that I find cool about that era of music, just because of the kind of political angle it had, like they were, all you know, part of the anti-Vietnam kind of pacifist, early environmentalist movement from that era Back when it seemed like people were very engaged in this kind of counterculture movement, and I think that's something that we need again. So I think that's yeah.
AJ:That's awesome. It's funny you should say that my most recent episode with Douglas Rushkoff, who has the Team Human podcast out of New York, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, he was actually saying he senses a different kind of engagement emerging, now that's even I mean, better that's not the right word but perhaps with more promise even than back then.
Emma:I hope so.
AJ:I hope so, and he's a bit older than us, so he could be right. It's very interesting to think. Thanks a lot, emma. It's great to meet you.
Emma:Thanks as well, and would love to hear more about your story, also travelling across the country, because I'm sure you've learned so much over the last year.
AJ:Thanks, Emma. Yeah, I'll share more. I'll find ways to share more and we'll talk more. Thank you.
Emma:Thank you.
AJ:That was Anica Wong and Shumaisa Khan from the Quivira team, Aussie Aria McLauchlan and partner Harley Cross from Land Core, and Emma Ractliffe from the Agrarian Futures podcast. Links in the show notes, including Shumaisa's song choice, by the way, with more for subscribing members as always, in great thanks for making this episode possible. You can join this great community of listeners by heading to the website or the show notes and following the prompts. Thank you. There will be videos of the conference publicly available next year, I believe. And among the sessions I caught, I can highly recommend Latrice Tatsey from the Blackfeet Reservation, who I'd read about in the incredible book Healing Grounds by Liz Carlisle, fellow podcaster Ed Roberson's session with Jesse Smith for the Mountain and Prairie podcast, Phil Ross on his incredible story working with and for African-American farmers in Texas, and Jonathan Lundgren from Montana, with thanks to Nicole Masters for telling me about Jon. There's also the new movie on the buffalo restoration out of the Blackfeet Nation called Bring them Home. It's sweeping all kinds of awards and I'll share more on that soon. And yes, the food was incredible, starting with an opening night dinner of offal. Yep eating the whole animal. Entirely normal for most cultures on earth, of course. And yes, it was delicious. Oh, and once again, for the third completely independent time on this podcast, I heard a version of the phrase progress is based on the speed of trust, said on this occasion by James Calabaza as he delivered the opening First Nations address. And it was my wife who later pointed out that each of the conferences that we've respectively attended in the US in the last couple of months have been dramatically impacted by extreme weather events, with flight cancellations and all sorts of other havoc, from the snowing of Denver and in Savannah, georgia, where Olivia attended a Qigong conference, hurricane Helene.
AJ:Thanks again to Quivira for having me along as a media guest and for standing me alongside three local podcasting legends at their Podcast Corner session. Great to meet some of you there too. Thanks, too, to long-term podcast subscriber Chris Diehl for sharing an apartment and many a valued debrief for the week. To the Savory Institute team for the wonderful hospitality over dinner on the weekend. And to Sandra, the Mexican-American woman I met who was sharing my flight back to family and friends in Baltimore.
AJ:Thanks for the breakfast bagel while we waited to board, a kindness that I feel is so emblematic of our experience right across this country, including much of the reaction we've observed to the election in terms of how to act from here. It echoes what you've just heard from the Regenerate Conference and what I heard from those friends in Baltimore on my return and their next door neighbour. A nd my most recent guest, Douglas Rushkoff, met the moment similarly on a brief Team Human podcast episode that aired after ours. And, incidentally, I was also interested to hear on the plane back east that Sandra believes in the resilience of the public institutions in this country to withstand the autocratic aspirations of the next president, also echoing a number of people I've spoken with about that. I could go on and will. Stand by for a debrief on the Dirt road Organising candidates very soon. As ever, so much comes down to these stories we tell ourselves and the ones we listen to. So thanks for listening to this one and for sharing and rating it. My name's Anthony James. See you next time.
