The RegenNarration Podcast
The RegenNarration podcast features the stories of a generation that is changing the story, enabling the regeneration of life on this planet. It’s ad-free, freely available and entirely listener-supported. You'll hear from high profile and grass-roots leaders from around Australia and the world, on how they're changing the stories we live by, and the systems we create in their mold. Along with often very personal tales of how they themselves are changing, in the places they call home. With award-winning host, Anthony James.
The RegenNarration Podcast
243. The AgZero 2030 Journey: Simon Wallwork & Cindy Stevens on a growing agriculture-led movement
Simon Wallwork and Cindy Stevens live with their three kids on a farm in Corrigin, in WA’s wheatbelt. In 2019 they joined a group of other producers to found AgZero2030, an agriculture-led movement progressing positive action on climate. Their goal? That agriculture achieves net zero emissions by 2030, and the drawdown of emissions after that. In other words, that agriculture go from being a key contributor to global warming and its increasingly catastrophic effects, to being a key contributor to reversing it, and regenerating ecosystems and economies everywhere. And they’re finding a way to connect with people and politics across the board, including First Nations knowledge and enterprise, to achieve it.
There was a bit of wind about on this day, but we took cover among the trees, grappled with mic changes, and got through mostly unscathed! Which was just as well, as this turned out to be a very personal conversation about the origins of AgZero2030, and a prescient one through to the present day, with an uncanny exchange on the trajectory of insurance in a warming world.
This episode was originally released as episode seven of a series of nine episodes I produced a few years ago for the Clean State podcast, dedicated to regenerative transitions in my home state of Western Australia. Sadly, the podcast and its host non-profit are no more. But the series of episodes featured such brilliant guests and stories, that are still so very relevant, and not just to West Australians, so we resolved to re-release them here.
To hear the rest of the Clean State series, and more stories of regeneration from around WA, Australia and the world, follow The RegenNarration wherever podcasts are found, or on the website.
You can access the Clean State Plan, and its brilliantly formatted Summary, towards the bottom of the episode web page below.
And for more from behind the scenes, become a supporting listener via the links below.
Recorded at Kings Park, Perth / Boorloo on 11 March 2021.
Title slide: Simon & Cindy (supplied).
With thanks to the CCWA, auspicing organisation for Clean State WA, for permission to re-release this series.
Music:
Eden is Lost, by
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The lack of leadership on a federal level. e were getting really frustrated about and voicing that and having those conversations at home. And of course, our kids are listening to these conversations And our youngest, Archie, kind of piped up one night and said, well, what are you guys doing about it? And we kind of looked at each other and said, yeah, well, what are we doing about it. And that's when Simon put out the tweet and he got a massive response, way more than what we had expected from other farmers.
AJ:G'day and welcome to the Clean State WA podcast. My name's Anthony James from The RegenNarration podcast, on board with you here for this special series dedicated to our home state of Western Australia and the newly released Clean State Jobs Plan. Simon Wallwork and Cindy Stevens are farmers from the Wheatbelt of Western Australia and part of the founding group behind AgZero 2030, an agriculture-led movement progressing positive action on climate. Their goal? T hat agriculture achieves net zero emissions by 2030 and the drawdown of emissions after that. In other words, that agriculture go from being a key contributor to global warming and its increasingly catastrophic effects to being a key contributor to reversing it and regenerating ecosystems and economies everywhere. And they're finding a way to connect with people and politics across the board, including First Nations, knowledge and enterprise, to achieve it. Simon and Cindy met me at Kings Park, overlooking Derbal Yerrigan, the Swan River, for this conversation. Now, Cindy, you chose this spot, so can you talk to it? ell us where we are and why we're here.
Cindy:Today we're at Kings Park, which I mean I really value the Australian bush and I guess I was thinking about why I love this spot so much in Perth and I think probably when we were studying at UWA, we used to need that downtime and this was such an invigorating kind of space I used to love running in and visiting. So, yeah, beautiful.
AJ:It smells so rich today too, with the dampness in the air and a little rain overnight. It's magnificent, and we would have been at the ocean if you had your way to, simon, probably, which kin with my interests, but another day for that. Next time we'll be in the surf, of course. In an ideal world we might have been at the farm itself. So we're not there today, but let's bring the farm into the fray. So I do want to talk us through the feeling of bringing a family up out there in the wheat belt in the community of Corrigan yeah, thanks, anthony.
Simon:Um, well, I guess. I guess it's not something I really planned on when I was thinking about my agricultural career, but Cindy and I studied agriculture together and subsequently got married and we're working in the industry and eventually the opportunity came to go back to Cindy's family farm and since we've had three children there and it has been a wonderful existence so far and and I understand why Cindy was pretty keen to raise her kids on the farm, because it certainly provides them a well-rounded upbringing and that connection to the land and vegetation, etc. So it's been great.
AJ:Give us a sense of your journey, I guess, through the farming over the last 18 years or so together, how it led to playing a hand in forming Ag Zero 2030.
Simon:Yeah. So I suppose it really started In our science education we became aware that climate change was an issue that the globe essentially was facing. At that point it was quite a theoretical type concept to us. But when we started farming and for me the turning point was probably 2010, which was our driest season on record, by a fair margin and it really got me looking at some of the trends that were happening with our climate locally and further across the wheat belt and it's quite clear to me that our winter rainfall in particular was decreasing, we were getting more severe frost events, temperatures were rising, etc.
Simon:So that got my interest in a program called the Climate Champion Program, which was a program run across Australia where farmers got together to discuss these things but also interact with scientists, Bureau of Met Staff etc. And start talking about climate change and how it's affecting us as farmers and how we're adapting to it. So from there, it was probably the last federal election or thereafter that the frustration levels built to a point where we just thought our industry was really on the back foot in our response to climate change and really the conversation wasn't open. There's a number of things risks, opportunities coming our way and we didn't feel our industry was being proactive enough. So we reached out to other farmers, other industry professionals and essentially called a meeting, a seminar, where we had 60 people along, back in September 2019, and that's where Ag Zero was born, essentially so, and now it's a movement that's really encouraging our industry to create a positive response to climate change.
AJ:And, cindy, did I pick up right that it was one of your children that put a question to you guys along the lines of what are you doing about climate? And I guess that's just by way of segueing to what it is at a personal level that makes you care this much.
Cindy:Yeah, absolutely. I guess Simon and I we're science-based, evidence-based we can see the trends and the lack of leadership on a federal level. We were getting really frustrated about and voicing that and having those conversations at home. And of course, our kids are listening to these conversations and our youngest, archie, kind of popped up one night and said, well, what are you guys doing about it? And we kind of looked at each other and said, yeah, well, what are we doing about it? I mean, clearly we can't lean on government to lead this in this space at the moment, like we actually need to get up and do something.
Cindy:And that's when Simon put out the tweet and he got a massive response way more than what we had expected from other farmers which then brought together four like-minded people. And then the forum followed about three months later and we had 60 participants from within industry as well as farming. We had 60 participants from within industry as well as farming. So and I guess farmers, you know we do want to leave a landscape in better condition than when we kind of inherited it and that's part of our role, I think, as custodians and you want to be role modelling to your kids. We're not just sitting back and whinging. We're actually getting out and rolling up our sleeves and we've got skin in the game and making changes. So, and definitely being on the front foot, I guess we've seen in some aspects, like the livestock industry and what happened with the live sheep export and being caught on the back foot we really felt like we need to actually get up and have a say before someone else kind of makes the decisions for us.
AJ:In some of the stuff I've read from you guys, you actually do use the word prosperity amongst it and you use the word before Simon opportunity, that it's not just trying to hedge in a problem, you're trying to establish new grounds for success and prosperity. What does prosperity mean in the bigger sense?
Simon:I think one we need to acknowledge we're part of the problem. From agriculture's point of view Not a significant Well. We're not the leader in the problem, we're about 13% of emissions approximately. But probably more important from our perspective is that we can be a key player in the solution, and from that I mean we've got the opportunity to assist, draw down the carbon in trees or soil. We can adopt practices that reduce emissions ourselves as farmers and in essence, we are reducing pollution through those changes. And if we're going to be planting more trees, particularly on areas that need it, not replacing food production, then to me that's prosperity. We're leaving the place in a better way state than when we started with it and we've helped address climate change.
Cindy:And around prosperity. It's about enriching our own lives, but also that of further future generations. And it's not just our part of the planet, you know, it's the whole planet. We are so globally linked now future generations. And it's not just our part of the planet, you know, it's the whole planet. We are so globally linked now. You know I mean things. I mean mental health. There's all sorts of issues that are coming up and I think the economic driven policies have really not effectively dealt with the environment and global kind of health on many levels. So it has lots of meanings. It's not just linked with economics anymore.
AJ:Yes, in fact, through a lot of my conversations it comes out that really, if agriculture, despite its, you know, 10 or 12% technical contribution to emissions, but in the bigger picture scale of things, that bigger picture prosperity, it's actually if there's, it's actually if there's not sustainable agriculture, there's not sustainable anything and wa is sort of that. That applies big time with. So much of our state is either a pastoral station or farming. You're talking about the functioning, the ecological function of our entire state is largely in agriculture's hands. It's the basis of everything we ever do, let alone the direct sort of food, fibre, fuel provision, and in that sense I mean it's an exciting opportunity which I'm sure you guys feel, and the responsibility you talked about. Is there another side that you feel a little? I don't know? Expectations have come out of the woodwork and piled on agriculture all of a sudden. Personally, I don't know expectations have come out of the woodwork and piled on agriculture all of a sudden.
Simon:Personally, I don't get those messages. My interactions with city folk, for example, are generally quite positive and I feel a sense of pride in what farmers do. But I do understand that, more broadly, consumers are looking for change as well in how we produce food. So I'm realistic in that sense. But we do need to celebrate as an industry what we achieve and how we have improved our land management practices over time. The key part there is that we keep improving, we keep being open to change. If we stop now, then we're not in a good position to manage these challenges that are coming towards us.
Cindy:You make a good point. I mean, I think consumers are more aware of their food and fibre and from lots of fronts, they're wanting animal welfare, they're wanting sustainability, they're wanting carbon neutrality and there's lots of fronts that we now need to look at on our products. It's encouraging that organisations like CBH are actually doing a big market research project looking at MRLs, carbon neutrality, sustainability, all those factors and how they're going to segregate our commodities according to what overseas consumers, but also local consumers, are wanting. So there is kind of pressure from different points, absolutely, but I think there is a bit of empathy from city folk that it's a challenge and perhaps we need time to kind of respond to market, the market signals.
AJ:And the name Ag Zero is with reference to being net zero emissions by 2030, and do I take it from that that post 2030 we're into the drawdown of emissions territory?
Cindy:Negative emissions woo.
AJ:Yeah, right on, tell us what made you sort of structure, the whole setup, like that, and, and I guess, what net zero means.
Simon:For those who might not be familiar, Well, I guess when we had that first conference at UWA back in September 2019, we talked about where we needed to be and I think some mentioned that, say, 2040, 2050, but there was general consensus in the room that there is some level of urgency with climate change and we really need to get on with the solutions and adopting those solutions.
Simon:And you know, the science is pretty clear that really to have a chance of keeping global warming below two degrees Celsius, we need to be carbon neutral there or nearby, by 2030. So that's where that bit came from. In terms of drawdown, yeah, of course, from agriculture's point of view, we, once we've achieved net zero which is achievable and there will be incentives to be involved in that, not just from a carbon market point of view, but there are benefits in productivity by adopting some of these practices. It's not necessarily mutually exclusive the idea of reducing emissions and productivity. You can do both. So once we meet net zero, then from there we look at drawing down carbon and helping other industries essentially get carbon CO2 out of the atmosphere.
Cindy:And this next decade is absolutely vital. I think we all recognize that this, this is our big opportunity, because if we push it out any further, then the costs on so many levels is going to be far more expensive. Um, so yeah, 2030, we felt. I mean it's, it's certainly ambitious, but 2040 and 2050 are too late.
AJ:Yeah, yeah no, it feels like it, it's sort of almost now. Yes, it just needs to be done now, and so that gives us a decade to hit marks. But go now, which is of course, what you've done with this, and the supporter list is pretty extensive and pretty high profile. Is there a change on that front, like in that trajectory with your community, with the supporter base? Has there been a real shift in terms of the extent of conversations, the extent of action?
Simon:Yeah, look, I think there's a fair sway of farmers now that really recognise climate change as a major challenge, and not just through the literature or the conversations that are happening, but through their own eyes. They're actually experiencing it. Unfortunately, the political nature of the topic has meant that the conversation has been, you know, reduced to some extent, particularly over the last decade where it's there's been a lot of political turmoil around this, so researchers have retreated to some extent, I think. But now this conversation's opening up and in some part that's to do with what Ag Zero has sort of opened up, and we're just finding now that we can talk more openly about climate change with researchers, with fellow farmers, leaders, et cetera.
Cindy:It's a lot safer. I think we've made it safer to have those conversations and there's actually a lot more support and a lot more people watching and listening and learning than what we kind of realise. But it's not only farmers, it's actually agribusiness as well, and agribusiness is starting to come to us and other organisations and saying well, what do we need to do to start developing products that can help us get to net zero emissions, which is really encouraging. So it's, it's really a lot of leadership is happening from the grassroots and industry.
AJ:And you feel like there's a quiet, maybe even majority of farmers out your way actually that are coming on to the conversation and and wanting to learn and look at the opportunities.
Cindy:I think so definitely, and particularly in the medium to low rainfall areas where climate change is having a negative effect, because I mean it's actually not having a negative effect everywhere. A lot of the coastal regions and higher rainfall areas, where they've only been able to run livestock, can now crop and are benefiting from very high yields. So we're not all experiencing the same thing with climate change, but certainly in the medium to low rainfall areas there's suffering and change. That's very visible.
AJ:The Department of Primary Industries is one of your supporters. The climate policy of the WA government was notoriously vacant of climate policy last year. What's that relationship like? What can you say about that relationship?
Simon:Well, I guess within the department there is a fair bit of expertise and I suppose, going back to what I said before, just due to this topic, the controversial nature of it, perhaps the expertise didn't have that clear air they needed to really get on with, with um doing what they need to do, and so, from that perspective, I think our relationship is really in trying to empower that expertise within deep heard, and we'll certainly be talking with them, working with them on these things, um, yeah, and obviously we would like the state government to be a lot more ambitious. Queensland and New South Wales have much more ambitious climate policies from an agricultural perspective and a land restoration perspective. We're well behind those states. So we're a very wealthy state, very powerful gas industry and we've got very high emissions. So we need to get cracking.
Cindy:I think, look, we have engaged with Deep Herd and have had preliminary talks about projects working together and we have a relationship with the Minister who's supportive of what we do and we were also involved in calculating carbon emissions with a pilot project through MLA and Deeper and that that's really encouraging, that Deeper can kind of coordinate that and are interested and they're looking at being carbon neutral in their facility and kind of showcasing that and evidencing a pathway, I guess. But yeah, of course there's always.
AJ:We need it faster and more yes, and at the sort of higher levels where it hasn't broken through quite yet. Yes, yes, and WA again, uniquely challenged in some respects. Hey, driest years the last two years and then, paradoxically in a sense, but not really, if you understand the science that frost is actually one of the major consequences of the warming at a global level. And the warming at a global level, atmospheric concentrations at a global level, atmospheric concentrations do continue to rise as we speak.
Cindy:Yeah, you guys must be feeling that acutely on the land yeah, absolutely, and, simon, you'll probably remember all the years, but I mean we've had, you know, two of our driest years on record. In the last kind of three years. We've had three moderate to severe frosts when we very early on started farming around 2004 to kind of seven. That had major impacts on our business and and I think what we've learned over the 18 years we've been farming is that a resilient from total cropping to now running sheep and cattle as well as several commodities, and that diversity has really strengthened our agro ecosystem as well as our business. So that's been some really important learnings, because we are having to adapt and farmers are fantastic at adapting, but adaptation just isn't enough anymore. We really need to look at both of the sides of the equation, you know, reducing the emissions as well as sequestering carbon, and farmers are in a fortunate position in that we do manage both sides of the carbon equation. So there are opportunities which are really exciting. It's just not a clear pathway for most farmers yet.
AJ:It's been notable for 15 years or so that the insurance industry has sort of in some ways led the call for change because they're getting struck by the more extreme events. Have you found that to manifest in any way for you guys, either in higher premiums or any other difficulties around insuring operations on the land?
Simon:Yeah, it's interesting you mention that because yesterday our insurance manager came out and renewed our insurance for the year and I asked him that question about how the insurance industry is dealing with climate change and the risks associated from their point of view and he said that they are starting to risk profile areas based on climate change and, naturally enough, that's going to influence premiums etc.
AJ:And the other side of the ledger is the market opportunities and potentially how exposed we are as West Australians again to, for example, tariffs with export markets into Europe, with the changes that are happening in the world markets and that's of the concern to you directly.
Cindy:Yes, absolutely. I think the stats are. Three quarters of our two-way trade have committed to carbon neutral goals either by 2050 or 2060. So they are not going to want to be importing carbon heavy commodities. So the EU have flagged for some time that they will be using both a carrot and stick approach, I think. But we hear more about the stick approach and carbon tariff seems to be around the corner and our products are going to be first in line, I think, for that. Yeah.
AJ:Women in agriculture. Cindy, I'll throw this one to you. It's been such an under-recognised role. I mean, everywhere I've been, it's clearly at least a couple, if not a family, if not an extended family, and this has been true through the generations. Here you are continuing on in agriculture and with a really successful succession plan which you'll be looking to sort of replicate in some manner, and it's not just in ag right, it's in political representation, it's in the work you're doing at Ag Zero 2030. Give us a sense of, I guess, where that's at for you, what's important, where you'd like to see it go.
Cindy:Yeah, hugely topical at the moment, isn't it? And and I think related equity and diversity on all levels is it's all related. It's related to climate, political representation, managing our landscape on so many levels. So yeah, when I did a Bachelor of Science in Agriculture with Simon and I don't know what the percentage would have been, but it may have been 15% to 20% females, but we've had, I see, that representation.
Cindy:We went to the GRDC crop updates and the younger demographic wandering around. It was closer to 50-50, which is really encouraging. But it'd be great to see more female leaders. I think there's women working in the industry but they don't necessarily take leadership positions and I think it's probably they need encouraging from elders, whether it's good men or whether it's from other women, so they really need to be tapped on the shoulder and say, hey, look, you need to try this, you'd be fantastic. So I think that's part of the equity and it needs to be agriculture and politics. It all needs to represent grassroots, which is very diverse, and then I think we all get our views heard and our and policy will reflect what the grassroots wants.
Cindy:To be honest, I didn't think I would come back to the farm. I just happened to meet someone who was in, involved in the same industry and it's been fantastic. It's the best place to bring up kids. You it's your economically and emotionally invested in the industry and you have uh, you're a customer. You are absolutely a custodian of the land and communities are fantastic places and we really need to promote that and there's. There's so many opportunities. I think moving ahead it's exciting yeah and it's really for all our benefits.
Cindy:Absolutely In that sense.
AJ:And you use the word custodian. That seems to be increasingly appropriate, perhaps as it always used to be in this country.
Cindy:Certainly the Indigenous perspective and their views and involvement will be really important, I think, moving forward, I think there's so much knowledge that we have to learn and share and it would just be great to get that cross-fertilisation of ideas in both a modern kind of global system but also from the grassroots kind of historical perspective that our First Nations people kind of bring.
AJ:That segues actually perfectly, because I wanted to come, simon, to the fact that you are involved with the Noongar Land Enterprise Group too and, as I understand it, that came from really just deciding again to take responsibility, just stop waiting for other people to do stuff. You went out on country for a bit, a family trip for a bunch of months, met First Nations more than you had before, came back and joined with people and sort of got involved in the journey of regenerating trust and then seeing how First Nations people can get enterprise going on their lands and come back onto country and all that sort of stuff. How's that been and give us a sense of the work you do there.
Simon:It's been quite an amazing journey.
Simon:Actually, the idea of the Noongar Land Enterprise Group was born with support from Department of Primary Industries, and it's based on the concept that different Aboriginal families or groups that have access to their own land work together on enterprises business enterprises that will then have flow-on benefits from a social and cultural point of view and allow them to have active participation and presence on their own country, instead of leasing that land out to non-indigenous folk, for example. So it's a very proactive, self-determining way of, you know, addressing some of the quite large challenges they face. So I came on in 2017 as their first executive officer and really it's about supporting the landholders investigate innovative enterprises. They have more of a focus on enterprises that are quite synergistic with the Australian landscape. They're not so interested in broadacre cropping, for example. Livestock yes, because you can use native species in a livestock enterprise, but things like honey production, native foods, obviously, cultural tourism and even carbon. From that perspective, indigenous communities have a really important part to play in addressing climate change and also including the knowledge that they hold, of course.
AJ:Yes. So what is the next step for Ag Zero 2030? Where to from here?
Simon:We'll continue on. We do hope at one point, sometime soon, that we become redundant. We're not here forever. We hope our industry gets on the front foot and we really tackle this problem head on, and then we don't have to be here anymore. So that's the end goal, really yeah, and what do you need?
Simon:well, obviously, funding is always a key point. We're looking into that at the moment and we're quite streamlined. We're not a high cost organization. We revolve, rely on voluntary effort, and we found that our volunteers are very motivated, which is fantastic. Obviously, it's a very important issue which we're tackling. So I think the key thing is that we you know people reach out to us or vice versa when we keep these conversations going.
AJ:So that's really what we need is just people to get involved and reach out if they really want to learn more about the stuff and I guess, in some respects, this having stemmed from that conversation with your 11 year old, you could imagine speaking to a 23 or something year old in 2030 and having a conversation which is more like thanks for doing that yeah, well, hopefully that's recognized.
Simon:We're not relying on that.
AJ:No, it's just a responsibility.
Simon:Yeah, yeah, we see it as a responsibility, but there's no doubt the next generation are very keyed into this challenge and are very educated on it, so we perhaps will be doing them a disservice if we don't get on with it ourselves, even though we're still trying to get our heads around a very complex issue. But yeah, we hope at that point that farming still remains a very attractive profession or other related careers in agriculture, and that our landscape's healthy, our communities are healthy and we've played a key role in addressing climate change as an industry.
AJ:Bang. Brilliant to be with you Thanks for joining me.
Simon:No worries, I'm tired now.
AJ:That was Simon Wallwork and Cindy Stevens, wheat belt farmers with Ag Zero 2030. The music you're hearing is by Selfless Orchestra. My name's Anthony James. Thanks again for listenin, t.
