The RegenNarration Podcast
The RegenNarration podcast features the stories of a generation that is changing the story, enabling the regeneration of life on this planet. It’s ad-free, freely available and entirely listener-supported. You'll hear from high profile and grass-roots leaders from around Australia and the world, on how they're changing the stories we live by, and the systems we create in their mold. Along with often very personal tales of how they themselves are changing, in the places they call home. With award-winning host, Anthony James.
The RegenNarration Podcast
247. Celebrating GROUNDED Festival: Behind the scenes with Matthew Evans & Sadie Chrestman
Welcome to a new year and new series of The RegenNarration! You might remember me talking last year with prominent author, documentary maker and farmer at Fat Pig Farm, Matthew Evans, in the lead up to the new festival he’s founded back home in Australia, called GROUNDED: the Food and Soil Festival. Well, that festival happened in early December, and a couple of weeks later I got back online with Matthew to talk about what happened, how it happened, and if it might happen again.
And hearing how his partner Sadie’s initial reaction to the festival was something like ‘wtf?’ only made me happier that she had accepted my invitation too. Aside from the fact that I’ve wanted to talk to her in her own right on this podcast for ages. (I don’t know that Matthew and Sadie have been on many podcasts together, so maybe I can even claim an exclusive!)
This conversation felt a little different. You'll hear this couple’s customary candour, humour and insight, but also an acute dose of exhaustion and elation. And it ends fittingly, in that sense, with a moving moment and tune from the festival.
Recorded 18 December 2024.
Title slide: Sadie & Matthew (sourced here).
See more photos on the episode website, and for more behind the scenes, become a supporting listener via the links below.
Music:
My Mother, The Mountain, by Claire Anne Taylor.
Intro music by Jeremiah Johnson.
The RegenNarration playlist, music chosen by guests (thanks to Josie Symons).
Find more:
The event with Charles Massy & the Pollocks that became ep.16. (Ep.20 features John Hewson with friend, and subscriber, James Tonson hosting.)
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And I walked in and there's Claire belting out this song and I reckon my smile stretched, you know, around the back of my head because you know I was just like, oh my God, we got through it and we've got this incredible music and everyone's having conversations. I just stood there and watched like 13 different conversations happening while she was singing, you know, and yeah, it was just beautiful, beautiful.
AJ:G'day from Antigua, Guatemala, where I managed to connect online just prior to the new year with Matthew Evans and partner Sadie Chrestman. You might remember me talking with Matthew last year in the lead up to the new festival he's founded back home on his farm in Australia. It's called Grounded the Soil and Food Festival. Well, that festival happened in early December and oh, the brilliant messages I was receiving from it. Thanks very much for those. As you can imagine, then I was keen as mustard to get back on the blower with Matthew to talk about what happened, how it happened and whether or not it might happen again, nd hearing how Sadie's initial reaction to the festival was something like WTF only made me happier that she had accepted my invitation too, aside from the fact that I've wanted to talk to her in her own right on this podcast for ages.
AJ:I don't know that Matthew and Sadie have been on many podcasts together either, so maybe I can even claim an exclusive! G'day Anthony James here for a new year and new series of The RegenNarration, your independent, listener-supported portal into the regenerative era, with thanks to listeners like Linda, Tibby Tuckett and Tristan Lovelock-Sweeney for becoming subscribing members over the break To brother-in-law, Dennis Cheng, for being the first to accept a subscriber gift from your wonderful sister. To you brilliant early subscribers to my new Sub stack. I'll thank you personally over there. And to Lisa Rock and Cate Sinclair, thanks for increasing your subscriber support mazing. If you're not yet part of this great community of supporting listeners, I'd love you to join us. Get benefits if you like And help keep the show on the road. Just follow the links in the show notes with my great gratitude. My gratitude was all the greater over the break too, because amongst the end of the year highlight slides I get sent from varied podcast apps. Spotify tells me that followers of the podcast there increased by over 30% last year. Buzzsprout, my host platform, tells me The egenNarration is in their top 10% for downloads.
AJ:For a humble independent podcast, that's pretty cool, though, to be honest, I don't pay much attention to the metrics, for, as my guest back in New York City, douglas Rushkoff, puts it, they take you towards figures and away from ground, and in this case literall nd in doing that you're required to tend the spectacle, he says. Indeed, efforts to scale up require that, by definition. Of course, moving towards ground is more this podcast's focus, but each year these slides come in I have a little look and when I see things like this I just feel more gratitude for it all my guests, the learning and you for listening and subscribing to make it all possible. So let's have another ripping year of things and see what we can muster together.
AJ:For starters, then, right on theme, a yarn about the wonderful stuff that went down at the Grounded Festival, along with some of its extraordinary backstory and possible future story. Today we talk with the couple at the heart of it all, who I found in equal parts exhausted, elated, insightful, searingly honest and utterly delightful. I've actually put a photo on the website that I snapped during our conversation of an endearing moment between the two that I love. Here's Matthew first, and Sadie joins us a few minutes later.
Matthew:Hey mate, not wearing many clothes.
AJ:It's hot here. How are you, isn't it always hot?
Matthew:there, though. How close is Guatemala to the equator? I must be almost on it.
AJ:Well, south America is, the top of South America is on it and we're here in Central. So, yeah, it's getting closer and it's actually Guatemala is called the land of eternal spring, so it sort of sits on about. Well, we're sort of 15 to 28 degrees, something like that, like every day, and that would be for a lot of beer in this particular part. Here. It gets hotter in the parts I used to live in, but it's also partly because I'm in this little room, obviously in this little hostel type thing, and there's air that comes through the building but not into the rooms, so and I've got the fan off right. Last same as last time. Bloody georgia, I think I was. So, yeah, the theme of heat in our conversations, yeah, um, it's, it's funny seeing you there.
Matthew:I mean I was thinking how hot it was last time and you would snuck off, and then you wasn't, like it was tractors or something about to start up or motorbikes that something that's right.
AJ:This time it's bless, it's pretty quiet this room we managed to get one that's off the road, which is a bonus, and there's only five rooms and people are pretty quiet. So, touch wood, that lasts for the duration and, yeah, I've just got to sweat it out.
Matthew:Well, sadie's not here, but she'll hopefully be back shortly. Okay, sadie's not here, but she'll hopefully be back shortly. Okay, she had to do a school run Even though she wasn't at work. She still has to take Hedley to the bus, so she'll be back in a sec?
AJ:Awesome, great. So how are you doing? I'm good.
Matthew:Yeah, I'm a little slightly worn. I think from my experience I found a good way to lose weight is, you know, just burn through, uh, adrenaline for a few months and it's a bit like. It's a bit like, you know, if you really love cooking and people go to me, I love cooking, I'm going to open a restaurant, it's. If you really love seeing interesting talks, don't run a fest. You know, a conference, it was that kind of thing of like. Oh, I really pretty much only saw the ones I was in, and even then I wasn't you know, one of them. I wasn't in because we had, you know, our only little medical hiccup happened just as I was sitting down to do the wine and cheese hour.
AJ:No way.
Matthew:At the end of the first day I was like, woohoo, this is it, I'm in, I'm 100% in for this. We've got through the day, no dramas.
Claire Anne Taylor:Party's on.
Matthew:And I get this message going. Hey, you might have sent the ambulance home 10 minutes too early.
AJ:Anyway, oh no, Was that okay? Did that work out okay? Oh no, it was absolutely fine.
Matthew:It was a woman who just had a migraine Awful and all you need to do is find somewhere cool and dark, and in those particular two days in Tasmania there was nowhere on our farm that was cool and dark, so it was just a management thing of you know. Everyone's got their own little needs.
AJ:So yeah, that was all good, all good, yeah, so you'll resign to the recordings yourself then, hey.
Matthew:Yeah, and I'm going to see one of the cinematographers today. So we had three people or four people five actually on site filming stuff over the two days, and so I've seen one little clip of one of the things and I'm about to go see what was happening in sort of the conference-style tents where they were recording at a fixed camera, recording every session of the day, and see how that is, because apparently it's not like you can't just look at it on your phone and upload it to the YouTube or something. It's in a different format.
AJ:Says a man who's worked in TV for how long.
Matthew:Yeah, but I didn't press any buttons.
Matthew:Yes, that's right, very good, and it is this weird thing of well, well, I'm still not sure I know how to use humanetics and I still can't read a spreadsheet, um, and so it's yet another skill set that I will have to half learn to be able to, um, get it up. But look, I think what was really nice is because we had the three stages running concurrently and it was a big. I have to say it was hard for people to get their head around. I'm still getting messages about you didn't have a lunch break. It's like well, which sessions would you have made me kill? Which of those sessions did you not want that you loved? Would I have to have got rid of for you to have a lunch break? And the other thing is I can't have 400 people all descend on a 35 seat restaurant for lunch all at once, and so that idea that you can miss a session, I think people found really hard. They weren't sure how they could manage it, but at the end of the two days I think they were starting to get an idea of oh, so I know how this works now. I can't see everything, I can't do everything. I know that a lot of it will be available later, but I can also talk to people who are in those sessions be available later, but I can also talk to people who are in those sessions and the whole point is that there's there's enough to do, there's enough to fill your brain or your needs each day, and that in you know, and that's different to the next person's in next year, in that session, you know the next hour they may need to walk around or they may need to go and check out something different, and so offering the different stuff gives them an ability to do a variety of things but then also catch up later.
Matthew:And it was one of those things we had right from the start and it looked like it was going to fall over because we just didn't have the money to do it. And then we were lucky enough to get some funding that included recording stuff and so that sort of guaranteed that we would be able to put it, put it online. I was thinking I was just going to have to be, you know, someone with a better phone than mine on a tripod um just to make sure there was a record of it. But now we've got. We had professional um cinematographers. I'm very lucky to have, you know, a filmmaker at the bottom of my road. She's going to show me how, to you know how it all works, how it looks on the, on the drive, on the um. Eight terabyte hard drive or whatever it is.
AJ:Whatever a terabyte is, apparently it's big I think, um, for better and worse, and that's mostly worse, given how much this takes, uh, data wise, data center wise across the globe. Even a terabyte's getting to be not regarded as that big anymore, sort of a general consumer item. But anyway it was big at one stage.
Matthew:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Look, I don't know. It just seems like I'm learning about all this kind of stuff because I didn't even know I needed to have a hard drive.
Claire Anne Taylor:Yeah, yeah.
Matthew:Until they said oh, you need to go and spend dollars on this, on this thing, to make sure that we can keep it.
AJ:You know, I just thought oh, you just doesn't just sit on a usb, apparently not well, yeah, even audio adds up in my case, but it doesn't quite do what video does. Video is huge, but, yeah, it's terrific that you did get that, though that's that's going to be a brilliant record and that it was done super well, all the better. Before I ask you about some highlights, I don't want to let pass too quickly though the physical, visceral experience of it for you. Setting something up like this from the get-go you mentioned the word broken to me, even in our little exchange after before this Give us a bit of an insight, as raw as it may be, so we get a glimpse of behind the curtain in that way. That feels important and perhaps instructive for those who might be thinking of other stuff in future too, but also to perhaps help out next time or just appreciate what goes into it.
Matthew:Yeah, it was interesting. We had a couple of people who were on site, who'd run things before, you know, field days or that kind of stuff, and and they looked at what we were doing and and it was they. They were the people who, I guess, like a parent, you know, until you've been a parent and and you've seen, had your own toddler screaming in the supermarket, you know, don't understand that. What other people are going through. So, look, I have to say I had no idea what I was getting into and I was kind of like, well, why don't we have three tents in the middle of paddocks? Why don't we just film it all? Why don't we just have it on farm? You know, and every step, you kind of went oh, that's why that's the reason, you know. I think that the moment when I was wanting to film it and you know, have you need a microphone in each stage, you want to have a screen in each stage, because a lot of people were saying they needed PowerPoint and whatever.
Matthew:And I was trying to talk people out of that, the speakers but they were very keen to have PowerPoint. Oh, that sounds exciting. And so we went to a professional because people were saying you need to be able to see this. Like people are paid, you know, hundreds of dollars to come to this festival slash conference, you know you can't have PowerPoint that no one can see. And so we went to a professional and they said oh yeah, no problem, we can put those screens up. We'll need a tech person and an AV person. No problem, that's going to cost you between $30,000 and $40,000, right.
AJ:Yeah.
Matthew:So that's the moment where I went holy moly, we'd already got a forecast that we were going to lose 30 grand on the event before we got that quote and you kind of went oh, that's why you don't have a screen in every tent, that's why you don't do it in the middle of a paddock, because you have to have power. But what was amazing, anthony and I was a bit broken by the experience, but only because we tried to do a bit too much, like I ended up having 40 speakers, we ended up having 65. I thought we'd have 42 sessions, we ended up having 86 sessions over two days. Yeah, you know, this is no small thing that we did, but every step of the way. So when I was like, oh my God, how are we going to put up a screen, my filmmaker friend said well, I've got a projector for one of the tents you know and Sadie projector for one of the tents you know. And I and sadie um said I, I know a tech person, so you don't have to employ someone at. You know a thousand dollars a day which is what I was being quoted to to make sure that the, the powerpoint, runs properly. They do all the computers at the school, um, where she teaches, um, uh, you know, oh, we need to do some signage. Well, I know how I'll just come and hand, paint old Apple palette boards and do all your signage for you.
Matthew:And people stepped into the room and the thing that blew me away, anthony, like I put in a quite large effort, but I was surrounded by goodwill and it was only at the very last speech, like sort of saying thanks for coming, that I realised that we had only paid at that point and we have to pay a lot of people since. But at that point we had done this event, as I say you know, over 60 speakers, over 80 presentations, two and a half days of full-on stuff happening on the farm. We had paid one person eight hours a week for some admin for about three months. I had paid one person eight hours a week for some admin for about three months and by the time the festival was on, no one had been paid for the previous three months because I was doing all the admin and it was all done on the good energy and the good vibes and the goodwill of the people who wanted to see it happen.
Matthew:And that blew me away. I'm getting goosebumps just thinking about it.
AJ:Yeah, me too. Yeah, no, I think of how you only experienced that because you stuck your neck so far out as well. But then the person who can do that is game enough to do that. Wow, what it can animate in others.
Matthew:Yeah, look, I think I was lucky because I mean we've run hospitality stuff, we've done learning things on the farm, I've been to events so I had some idea of what kind of worked and what didn't. One of the most beautiful things that happened was we opened our house as a bit of a space where it was a quiet space. It certainly wasn't at six in the morning when Dan Kittredge is there cooking eggs for 12 people. There's people sleeping in the lounge room. There's Dan Kittredge from Massachusetts, wherever he's from, you know, cooking eggs and going. Oh, there's another person. I walk in from milking, someone grabs my milk churn. Who's a farmer from New Zealand who's over-volunteering, who happens to be sleeping in a tent outside our window and he can recognise that I've just you know, I've got the good milk in my hand. He starts making coffees, awesome.
Matthew:But during the day the house was this sort of haven and you know the revanks, helen, um the revanks and one of her sons. They were jet lagged from the uk, so they slept in the house and had a little quiet moment. We had this beautiful woman who used to work with us, who volunteered to to just make people comfortable, that all the speakers comfortable and would sort of insist they have a cup of tea and a pastry and a sit down before their session. And so people fulfilled all these little roles and we stuck our neck out. Well, I stuck my neck out, but kind of knowing that around me were some people who had some skills and hoping that all of the things that I am incapable of doing, there would be someone who might be capable of doing it. And if not, you know we also. Everything was done with good intentions, everything was done trying to make things nice and good, and I think it was a very forgiving audience as well. Yeah, Beautiful.
AJ:Is it time to bring Sadie into the fray? Hey, how are you?
Sadie:Hello Anthony.
AJ:Welcome.
Sadie:Thank you, thank you.
AJ:I feel like I've been waiting to say that to you for a long time. It's great to see you.
Sadie:Very nice to see you too In wherever you are, because I obviously missed the beginning. Oh yeah, guatemala.
AJ:I'm in Guatemala at the moment. It's an old home of mine.
Sadie:Yeah, yeah. No, I know that from listening to the podcast I knew you were going down there. Oh, fantastic.
AJ:Yes, I'm not yet back where I used to live, but we're en route. It's a smallish country but, relatively speaking, to get between places because it's very mountainous, dramatically changing climates and, of course, logistical stuff, so nowhere goes anywhere terribly fast.
Sadie:Well, that's a nice way to live for a while.
AJ:Exactly it is. It's timely that it's the end of the year and I need to take the foot off the pedal a bit too, but also very surreal that I'm here again and with the family and yeah, I'm bracing myself partly, to be honest, twenty years on, like what's a town, a small dusty town, going to look like these days, and who's there and who's not, and who's died and who's born, and what school kids are now Grandparents? I don't know. It all happens pretty quick there. So yeah, we'll see. But back to you. But back to you. You've come in at this point where we're just talking as much about the task of pulling it off and to get as real as possible, sort of with that to really convey some of the depths of the experience outside of the party.
Sadie:How was it for you? I largely ignored it for six months, just the yes, dear.
Sadie:Yeah, pretty much the deal was and Matthew may have already said this the deal was, uh, that he could, he could have his ridiculous festival, uh, but that I wanted nothing to do with it. He wasn't allowed to call on me, uh, and he stuck to that like he really did. I mean, it helps, I know work, uh, I now teach off farm so I'm I'm gone days a week. On the fifth day I'm still doing sort of teaching things and catching up things. So I wasn't available either.
Sadie:But he would work, you know, long into the night. He would have, you know, we would have family dinner together and then he'd be up at the kitchen bench back on his computer emailing speakers and answering questions and asking questions. I mean, it was a massive, massive administrative effort to make it all happen. And it was a massive, massive administrative effort to make it all happen. So I really didn't come in until the last minute, like I took a week off work and I worked the week of the festival itself. So that was my main contribution, that and making sure that Matthew was Ben Wharton for the six months before.
AJ:Well, having a partner who does a bit of that here as well, that's not to be taken lightly. And in that context, then the burst experience for you. How did it look through your eyes and how did it feel?
Matthew:I think we need to start with when she first looked at the program and realised exactly what I was doing, which was on the Saturday before the. You know you're kicked off with a Tuesday cocktail party. This is the Saturday before she's taken the week off.
Sadie:She looks at the program and oh, I don't remember what did I do? What?
Matthew:the heck did you do what on earth? And then she cried.
Matthew:Then she swore, and then she left the house for six hours. Did I, Yep? And I told our son she can't even remember this and she told our son sorry. I told our son that nature sometimes has a way of saying beware. And the way your mother just behaved means beware, Do not go near, Don't touch. It's like a snake when it flattens its head. You know, that's kind. There's a warning sign there. Hedley, you and I, let's not go near Sadie for a few hours and let her come back Anyway. So that was the Saturday, Anyway, you can tell us Very good.
Matthew:It wasn't good, Anthony.
AJ:No, well, exactly. So this is what I'm really interested in the actual lived experience in the background of oh shit.
Sadie:Of pulling something like that off.
AJ:Yeah.
Sadie:It's sort of actually how Matthew and I have run our lives since the very beginning is that we've bitten off more than we can chew, and then both of us are extremely stubborn and we have to make it happen Like there's no room to go. Maybe we shouldn't do this. It's like, once you've sort of made the decision and you're going with it, so you just do and you just. If it means you have to stay up later or get up earlier or move faster, then that's just what has to happen. Um, I think this festival has taught me that I am now.
Sadie:I'm now 57, and I don't want to live my life like that anymore here we go I would actually like to slow down and plan things a bit and give, you know, have a bit more space around each project to actually let it finish and wrap up and just settle really.
Sadie:But, yes, that first weekend I realised I had to get from sort of zero to a hundred very, very quickly and get my head around things about what was happening and what needed to happen and what my jobs would be once it all got rolling. And that's what it was. It was just like moving really, really fast, making sure that all the volunteers had what they needed to do the jobs they volunteered for, to make sure that all the kitchen staff were supported, because that would normally be Matthew's job but he wasn't available to do that.
Sadie:Um, and my job is often the people support and making sure that the people who are I mean, it was the same when we had staff in the restaurant as well it's just that make sure that people were were happy working here and therefore to do do their best, and that's what I slipped into pretty easily yeah, that's it.
AJ:Yeah, so you got the skills, obviously in the background, but huge job nonetheless, and so how was your experience of it then? Actually, the festival was amazing the festival was absolutely amazing.
Sadie:so once the speakers started arriving um, and no one really knew what it was going to be and they would arrive, and there were these massive marquees and there were flags and there was bunting and there were hand-painted signs and there were lots of really delightful people welcoming you and explaining where to go, and I think a lot of the speakers were like oh, wow, okay, this is what this is excellent, it was very well organized.
Sadie:I think everyone felt that, um, it was the. The vibe was was incredibly joyous. Um, a couple of people have said since the festival and matthew might might go into this that it was the kind of. There were a lot of people with very different opinions and they all chose to find common ground and they all chose to listen to each other and they all chose to find something in what the other person said that they could agree with, and that was a pretty amazing atmosphere.
AJ:Yeah, that is awesome. And it reminds me, Matthew and I did want to come back to this of what we talked about you you know, three months out, when I first saw the sort of draft program and I was struck by the inquiring nature of the program. We talked a bit about that framing and it made me wonder then what did come out of that if there was that sort of a vibe for a start, and then I guess what gems may have come out of it yeah, after our conversation that was really interesting, I think, because I hadn't realized that lots of the topics were questions.
Matthew:You know, I hadn't sort of picked that and and I think that after you and I talked about it and you brought that up, I suddenly realized, yeah, so I guess what we're trying to say is we don't have the answers. Yeah, maybe some of these really clever people have the answers for your farmer or your land or whatever. Maybe they don't. Maybe you'll come up with the answers after listening to them. Maybe someone in the line for the toilet will have you know the answer. Um, whoever you might meet having a beer afterwards or whatever it might be. Um, look, it's hard to know for me. I didn't really see sessions I, I think what all I I could do, because I was generally dealing with, um, a lot of little on-site, little issues that were nothing major, but just lots of stuff. Um, so I was just picking up on the energy of the event mostly.
Matthew:The energy was good. People talking about cool things, testing their brains, testing out ideas, wanting to discuss things way beyond the 50 minutes or whatever we allowed in each marquee. And yeah, like I say it was a good acceptance of other ideas 50 minutes or whatever we were, we allowed in each marquee. And yeah, like a really like say we're saying so good acceptance of other ideas. Because you know, and we're right at the end that the last three sessions I just wanted to throw stuff in the air and say, okay, you've been sitting here for a couple of days listening to stuff, but let's just, let's just blue sky. I think, yes, let's think of how we can look at the world differently, and I think a lot of that was happening. Anyway, you know, we didn't maybe need to structure it like that. There was already people sort of trying to take concepts and work out how they worked for them.
Matthew:You know, and I don't know what were the magic moments? For me, the magic moments were the madness on the farm, you know, like waking up and going. I think there's 35 people. We have a two-bedroom house, you know. There's like 12 people in the kitchen having breakfast at 6am. There's something like 35 people sleeping on the farm, in various places there's this whole community and thing that just appeared and disappeared you know, sort of a day before the event and a day after the event it just sort of you know appears, and for me that was the wonder was how something so transient or whatever Ephemeral, ephemeral- yeah just can actually have so much resonance.
AJ:Yeah, yeah, I hear you.
Sadie:I think one of the things. I think that for me, um, I went to a couple of sessions where, uh, jack pascoe spoke, and also jason smith, who's a palawa man who lives near here, and understanding sort of deeply, I'm sort of really sort of finally really understanding how fragmentary all of our various knowledges are. And you know, the Palawa have lived in Lutruwita forever I mean, it's 42,000 years in whitefella terms and they altered the landscape, farmed the landscape to feed themselves, and now we have a lot more people and we are feeding a lot more people, but we're destroying the topsoil. So now we have to find a way forward to continue to feed this greater number of people. But how do we do it in a way that cares for the country and, as Dan Kittredge puts it, engages with the earth as a sentient being, as opposed to exploits it like a factory floor and to be in a place where everybody had little bits of knowledge around how to do that and how do we fit this jigsaw puzzle together and how?
Sadie:That's different for every single landscape. You know, that's different for the Hegartys in Western Australia and it's different for Chris Hengler up in the Kimberley and it's different for us down in Lutruwita, tasmania, and that was very exciting that mosaic of people coming together and going, oh, wow, okay, we've got to figure this all out going forward. We have to come up with, you know, new ways of doing things and this is, you know, this is not new, this is what you talk about on your podcast all of the time, but to be in one space with all of those people trying to work that out and understanding that we need to work it out for future generations was really exciting.
AJ:Yeah, 100%. I can just imagine and it's certainly some of the stuff I've heard too. I've heard also that there was a sense that it was. I mean, one person said raw to me there was quite a rawness in the vibe as well, like it sounded like people were really putting it on the line. Is that something you observed as well?
Sadie:Oh, I wouldn't have thought of that if you hadn't said that, because I also. It was a very safe place. You know that thing that we said earlier that people really were trying to, you know, find the good in each other's arguments. So it hadn't actually occurred to me that people were putting themselves on the line. But I think you're right, I think they were. I think a lot of people who spoke in their home countries, in their home landscapes, in their home communities, have to be very careful about what they say and how they say it.
Sadie:You know, what they say is not necessarily accepted. So here we were, all you know, busily agreeing with each other about a, you know, a regenerative future. But actually for a lot of people that is a novel experience to be able to speak that freely about what it is that they believe. So, yeah, so maybe it did feel raw.
AJ:Yeah, that's really well said. Yeah, I also heard that there were strong themes, and the decolonisation aspect you sort of broadly touched on before was one, and so was the nutrition aspect, which again comes back to what we talked about at length, matthew, and what I really took from you was perhaps your personal key line of inquiry around can farmers get paid for nutrition, for nutritional density in food? What came from there? Was there any sort of discernible? I mean, again, you're talking from a I need to see the recordings point of view Did you hear anything?
Matthew:Oh, look, in terms in terms of like, yeah, there were strong themes and they were sort of embedded because I guess my interests and and and just the luck of you know someone like felice jacker, nutritional psychiatry researcher, and dan kittredge, and, uh, you know a couple of the other speakers, um, you know anita fleming from new zealand. Yeah, like they they all sort of tied into that and I was just lucky that they all said they'd love to come and so it was like, oh, I get to follow this, you know, from the soil to the stomach, kind of to the brain, which is super cool, and they are all meeting up, they're all having the private, you know professional, you know gatherings after the event, awesome. So, in terms of the farmers being paid, no, nothing, I think there's nothing uh on the horizon, um, really for that, but that it doesn't mean it's not going to happen in the next few years. I mean, we sort of have the parts coming into place, ready for that, um, but we, we, you know the mechanisms and everything that is yet to be worked out. But I think what was amazing was the suddenly people who are in that space going. Oh, hang on, we know this stuff.
Matthew:I was chatting to someone who works for a gold mining sorry, a gold testing company out of Western Australia. And so they need to know where gold has come from, to know if it's been stolen and which mine it comes from. And so they now use that technology for cherries and they can tell you whether a it comes from. And so they now use that technology for cherries and they can tell you whether a cherry comes from Chile or Tasmania, or whether it comes from northern Tasmania or southern Tasmania. And if you want to spend the money, you can say which tree and which orchard in southern Tasmania that cherry has come from. And so, if we can do that, we know that the composition of the cherry is different. And then we also now know that farming systems can drive the difference in composition of the cherry. So all of that stuff exists.
Matthew:The bit we haven't quite got to yet is is you know a reasonable way of testing which will allow farmers to be paid for the, for the product, as opposed to um? At the moment, like we have broad things like regenerative or organic or biodynamic, and they're all sort of trying to say, well, well, this potentially is better, but you know from Dan's research, unless you're looking after soil biology, it doesn't matter about your label, so we need to be able to pin it to the individual farmer because that's where the magic, that's where they can do the right thing by their soil, which can increase the nutrient density of the crop. They're the person who's going to get paid and I think that's the little bit that's missing. And it's making it cheap, available and accessible to farmers of all size, because the big operations can do it already if they wanted to. They probably just don't want to because it's probably not in their interest. But once it's available at a price that people can afford to um the small farms, that's when we'll see actual change.
AJ:Yeah, right on, it sounds like in that sense there was a, because I'm curious, who was there right from a punter's point of view, like who, who are the people in the room or the rooms? And it sounds like there was a bunch of people that you just described there who are. I mean, it gives me a sense that there was the right people were in the room for that sort of a discussion. There were the people who had these skills. I know there were finance people there too, so there were those. Who else was there, who turned up in the end?
Matthew:Yeah, enough of them turned up, anthony, which is a relief, yes, because for a while it was looking a little sketchy.
AJ:Really, it always comes in at a rush in the end.
Matthew:Well, it wasn't, I have to say. There was virtually no tickets in the last week, virtually none.
AJ:Is that right?
Matthew:Yeah, and everyone said you will sell most of your tickets in the last week and we sold for about five days in the last week we sold zero tickets, but we were in an okay place by then and we we did sell quite a few in the last 24 hours or something to locals.
Matthew:Look, anthony was mostly interstiters just over. It's probably about 55 percent from interstate, because a lot of tasmanians sort of booked later and so that, um, uh, that's where we thought it would be roughly was about 80 percent farmers, we believe, or land managers, people who have access to country or help other people look after country. So maybe advisors that you know, people who work with you know, biostimulants or those sorts of companies or RCS or whatever it might be. And yeah, I think we got the right people in the room because it seems like it's very hard. We're in southern Tasmania, we didn't have an advertising budget, we just went out through our own channels and we gathered quite a few people who are well-connected. So, from our understanding is what has happened is that they came going up we don't even know what this is. This dude, this hobby farmer from southern Tasmania, got some idea, you know, about running something. They came down and they went. Oh my God, that's actually. There was some incredible topics covered. There were things that we didn't even know existed. You know in the world happening. There were experts on the ground that I could just sit and have a chat to personally and ask questions, hard questions, and so those people now are going oh, this is really quite amazing, and so we get the sense that it's filtering out through their channels, which is which was always the hope that we.
Matthew:You know, when we first targeted, we tried to go out through organizations that that where, where the people who had more sway would hear about it and maybe they would come, because, because we have a limited number of, you know, we can only take about 300 people on site, 300 ticket holders, and we sold about 286 tickets or something in the end. So we were quite limited in that sense. So we wanted, I guess, people who in some instances, have other influence, because these are messages that we want to get out there. You know I didn't set this up because you know I need to. I'd heard all these people speak before, you know. That's why I invited them.
Matthew:Um, this is not for me. This is to get information out there and to see it filtering out and to know that someone like dan pittridge has never been to australia. He's got a fortnight in australia and then a week in new zealand. That's super cool because the soup there's great things going on in that, that world of measuring nutrient density that can now be put into our society and into our farming systems.
Matthew:You know whether it's Felice Jacker's work on, you know, mental health, and she's now tapped into the farming community, so she's reinvigorated about the research that she's doing and going in a whole new direction in terms of well, it's not just what you eat, it's how what you eat is grown Awesome, it affects you and so seeing that happen that is wonderful, and part of that is because we were lucky with the people who chose to come to speak, but a lot of it is. We're very lucky in terms of the people who came to see it as well, because they you know we piqued their interest by getting them to stump up for a ticket, and the feedback has been incredible in terms of what they gained and what they're going to use and how they're going to think of the world that they live in and farm.
Sadie:Most people I spoke to had land, like when I was just wandering around talking to punters, which I would have liked to have done a lot more of.
Sadie:A couple of big people had quite a lot of land in Victoria. Quite a lot of people had small bits of land around the place. I spoke to a GP. That was quite awesome. Good, a couple of young people you know doing ag science degrees. So yeah, it was a kind of. It was a cross-section. You know, I don't really want to use the term conventional, I'm just going to use it for convenience. Yes, from the conventional end of the spectrum to the more experimental end of the spectrum.
Matthew:Did you?
Sadie:talk about the term regenerative and the reasons for not.
Matthew:No, we haven't, on this one Using that, yeah.
Sadie:So at the beginning, matthew was very deliberate in not using the term regenerative, because it's not really clearly defined. It means something different to everybody who does it. There are people who embrace it, there are people who reject it, and so a decision was made not to use it, and so the tagline was farming better, because farming better is something that we can all hook into. We all have different ideas of what better means and what better means in our landscape, but it's something we can all hook into. We all have different ideas of what better means and what better means in our landscape, but it's something we can all agree with that we should all be farming better.
AJ:Yep, there's the conversation.
Sadie:So what that meant was, I think, had we used the word regenerative, I think we would have gotten more people from a particular bent, and I think we can also do more work at the other end of the spectrum as well. It kind of because the, the idea is that this, what we want, is the broadest, you know, the. The broadest tent possible, the most inclusive tent possible. We want people, you know, really bumping up against each other and discussing things uh, in a, in a, in a way that's generous, and I think we're on the way to doing that.
Matthew:Yeah, I'll be really honest, Anthony, it was a really bad move from a marketing point of view to not just go regenerative, because you can just tap into a whole movement. But I felt that we were not beyond regenerative but we were inclusive of regenerative. That was one of the strings that we wanted to, you know, to pull on. But there were others that maybe regenerative doesn't necessarily encompass yet or at all. And yeah, so trying to get people to come point of view was a dumb idea. But in terms of, I think, what we've set up and the philosophy, I've had lots of people say oh, I thought it was going to be a lot more woo, woo, or I thought it was going to be a lot more of that, you know, just moving cows around stuff, um, where they're going?
Matthew:No, it's way more. It was deeper, more complex than that, and so, hopefully, what it was a bit of a negative, I guess, when we kick-started this one will be a positive into the future that we can take on all sorts of ideas, discuss them and possibly reject them. That's fine. That's the whole point of being inquisitive, but in a way, you know, not limiting ourselves from a term that is, you know, and sadly to some extent regenerative. It's sadly often maligned in Australia. It's not so much in the UK. You know it's much easier to talk about it there and not have it sort of be so divisive. But here it seems strangely divisive sometimes.
AJ:Yeah, it is interesting, but I really appreciate what you're saying. I mean, I feel the same with the podcast too. You know, having done it for whatever it is, eight or nine years now. Eight years now it's um, I, I well see the triggers. I could pull to get numbers and, yeah, part of it you could work the terminology that you know will attract the cheer squad.
AJ:But it's part of why I named the podcast the way I don't get too many opportunities to say this actually explicitly.
AJ:But part of the reason why is so. It was always going to be reflexive, so I bought into that regen bit, but with the little play on the, the word duration, it wasn't just stories of regeneration, it was a point of reflection or a reflexivity, better said to say that this is a movable, non--pin-downable, non-tear-squatty thing. This is the nature of culture that we ascribe meaning to stuff, including words. But that's what this is about Ultimately. Let's not get hooked on particular terminology or whatever, but come together for what we're really about, whatever we're agreeing amongst ourselves right now that we're about and that we value and we want to do something about. So the fact that you've done it that way, I really appreciate, and I really appreciate hearing, then, that it panned out that way that these people from different walks who had these queries were able to come together and be together in that way. It does also make me wonder, stemming from your previous answers and the story piece was there any media present?
Matthew:Yeah, look, the ABC Country Hour did roving reporting. They were trying to be on site to do an outside broadcast but you know there's not great phone reception here and so they couldn't rely on the tech. But they recorded, I, I think, 10 or 15 interviews. But mains, oh, there was taz country here, um, so that's a you know, a rural um newspaper, but apart from that was we had a couple of podcasters and a youtuber, so pretty much sort of that. More, uh, you know, alternate media, I guess, yeah, the new media, we didn't, you know, we didn't tell the local newspaper, we didn't approach others. The Land newspaper were trying to send someone but they couldn't make it at the last minute.
Sadie:They did do.
Matthew:They did a really lovely story ahead of time and made a site visit, but yeah, I wouldn't say it was, it didn't pick up huge amounts. I mean, I think, anthony, like people, we didn't know what we were pulling off. Really, yeah, so to try to explain to landlines.
Sadie:Landlines yeah, why they should come yeah?
Matthew:what they're going to gain out of this. It was a hard sell and we, you know, don't really have a the capacity to be chasing a lot of that stuff, you know. So I think we were happy with the amount of publicity it got. In a sense, we got, yeah, some traditional media, some alternate media, yeah good. And I think being able to put everything online will be really nice so that people can just sort of pick that up and that'll just gently filter out.
Sadie:Yeah, I think being able to put everything online once we can work out all the tech behind that, because that's a whole other mammoth task that's right like what a good idea that was there's a reason I don't do video, yeah, um, but yes, I think, once that happens, the people who were here will, you know, cherry pick their favorite talks and send them out to their, yeah, so, people, um, you know, I talked to a really wonderful woman from slow food who was super excited about the videos being able to go out because she had, you know, she wanted to send it out through her slow food, um and circular economy networks. So, you know, I think, I think there's a lot of there's still a lot of conversation to come outstanding.
AJ:So the million dollar question maybe literally is do you run it again? I'm leaving? You said it was so good, sadie it was.
Sadie:I want to go as a punter there we go, I want to go to the talks. I want to sit with my my mom, in the chair and my notepad.
AJ:This is it, so what?
Matthew:do you do it's?
AJ:a conundrum.
Matthew:You can help with videos.
Sadie:Yeah, I can drive people to the airport. You know what my favorite job was On the last day? I did the airport run.
AJ:I love that job Because when I used to organize events before the podcast started it's part of why the podcast started, because I'd ended up doing 10 years I didn't think they would end the events, but because I felt like the podcast, very quickly I had to get out on country and learn about my country. Uh, the the events ended, but I was doing events that got to be pretty big, like about 300 people as well, largely out of melbourne, and the last, what ended up being the last one, was actually with charlie massey and francis and david from Walleen had been brought together on a paddle and it was classic in a standing room. Mainly amazing stuff, became a podcast later, but they ended up being the last one. But I'd done a bunch of them and I was, I mean, bless again. The help was always amazing, but I was carrying the can and doing the airport runs as well myself. But they were awesome.
AJ:And I'll never forget the one where I got charlie because, uh, john hewson had come down for I was organizing two in that festival. I had a mate hosting one with john hewson on it, um, which was also super interesting. I think we put that out on the podcast too, and, um, john and charlie, in the back of ol's parents' car, right driving through traffic jams, to get to bloody Federation Square or wherever it was, gave us a lot of time and it turns out they go way back because John launched Breaking the Sheep's Back, charlie's brilliant book, so that was one of the. I mean you just sit there and listen.
AJ:Yeah, it's wonderful, yeah, yeah yeah, yeah, so I hear you Okay.
Matthew:So, matthewew, do you run it again? So, um, sadie said quite clearly well, on the saturday before I thought this is never going to happen again. And then she did an incredible job, as usual, of looking after people and making sure everything ran smoothly. And after this craziness she said to me I'm not going to say you can't do it again, but I'm going to tell you this you can have no ideas no book ideas, no festival ideas, no ideas until you do the list, the first list, and then maybe another list of things that I have got for you that you have neglected to do for the last six months. So that's where we're at, anthony, good one, I have not started on those lists. I've been sort of recovering a little bit and and there's quite a lot of really boring admin work. No one told me about the boring admin work after the high of the festival.
Sadie:I know you don't have volunteers for that part either like before, after the festival.
Matthew:It's just you don't have volunteers for that part either, like before or after the festival.
Sadie:It's just a wrap-up. It's just you.
Matthew:You have 25 volunteers do two hours each. Oh great, everything's done so quickly. Hang on, it's me. Taking that apart, that's me 50 hours when I'm tired. So I'm learning a little bit about that side.
Matthew:Look, we spoke. I've spoken to people on the mainland about and done a site visit for, a potential one for next year, possibly the year after. I've also spoken to people in WA two different farms actually about potential for doing something, possibly next year, but much smaller than this original one here. Well, it's smaller in scope, not necessarily in numbers, but in terms of ambition of what we were trying to do. But they're all conversations that we'll have in the new year. So at the moment, what's amazing is we had an idea. It came off. You know, my I had my greatest expectations were surpassed, like I did I nothing that that really could have gone wrong went wrong, and everything that went right went so much more right than we thought. Um, and that's kind of blown me away. There was a. Yeah, it was a. It was a very nice event to be at, even if you were working hard, and we kind of know what we're doing a bit better. So it it's almost like, well, it'd be a shame not to have another crack.
AJ:Yeah that's right, hard yards done. I'll never forget Cole Mannix from Old Salt when they ran the Old Salt Festival and he said, yeah, the first year, geez, that was hard and we lost money. But we did it again and we broke even or maybe even made a touch, and we didn't kill ourselves. And we broke even or maybe even made a touch and we didn't kill ourselves, like it was the second time round that you bore the fruit of the hard labour.
Matthew:Yeah, look, I think to some extent we don't know what another one would look like. I mean, is this one? Was it just magical? Because no one knew what was going on, you know, and look, we sort of, even when we ran the restaurant, we sort of tried to under-promise and over-deliver, but we were promising a lot with this and I still think we probably over-delivered. Yeah, but does that happen again? When you can't rely on the goodwill, when you can't rely on everybody chipping in, everybody loaning you everything, everybody, you know, next year I think people would be less forgiving of my failures and incapacities. And so, yes, I think it would be good to have another crack. And I also think, like we've got something wonderful that happened and I think we probably could recreate it, but I think everyone would be different. Yeah, you know, you couldn't expect the same again again.
AJ:No, I think that would be part of the magic. I almost want to come back to the thing you said about um. It's surpassing expectations on all levels. This is the theme I got certainly got from old salt as well, but probably every place that was doing something of this variety across the states, that this was true and I had this in mind coming into this conversation too. So hearing you say that really echoed large in my mind, and I mean easy for me to say from here, but I think that's the nature of it. I wouldn't anticipate that not being the case again, you know, in a different form. But I think that aspect, when it's done in this way, does result in wow, a little bit of magic, certainly more than some of the parts you put together.
Matthew:And it is completely reliant on not us, like we. Just we bung a few tents up and get some people to talk, you know, and there's a lot of work goes into all of that but actually where it happens is the people who show up, who buy a ticket, volunteer. They're the ones that actually drive something quite delightful, and so, by definition, you'll have a different crowd next year, and it would have to be different, but they're the ones that make it happen.
Sadie:Yeah, for me it always comes back to theatre, which is where I started my life and that, as an audience, you know. The kind of more interesting, the kind of forms of theatre that I'm interested in actually come out of South America. This idea that you're not spectators, you're spectactors, you're active participants in what's going on. It is no longer enough just to sit back and be passive recipients of information. The reason these festivals are special, the reason these things work, is because the people who come make the magic happen.
Sadie:They have to want to be excited and talk to each other and talk to the speakers, and so the knowledge happens between people, not within people.
AJ:Yeah, that is a brilliant tradition, isn't it that tradition of theatre? Do you ever think of doing more of that? No, you can teach people now, Sadie I teach.
Sadie:Now I teach kitchen garden, I work drama into lots of things that I teach, yeah there you go. So it's all that stuff, all those life things, all those lives that we all say, they find their way out in other ways.
AJ:Yep beautiful.
Matthew:But Anthony, I think, and so he's right. When we used to run a restaurant, it was like the curtain goes up at a certain moment, but it is theatre, it smiles on and everyone's in place and everything. But what I think's what interesting about having just run this and kind of going well, why didn't anyone ever do this before? You know, with multiple paddocks, multiple sessions, it forces people to be involved. So, yes, they might go, oh, I'm missing out on this. Or you know, oh, I've got to walk, got to walk and get my.
Matthew:You know, the coffee machine's a long walkway because you can't have the coffee machine next to the tent. It makes too much noise. But it forces them to actually be involved, to get up, to move, to interact, and that it's not by accident that that creates something else. That's actually quite deliberate that we create spaces and movement and action, because because that's actually the the it's forcing people. It's like at the table when you force people to to use their hands to break bread as opposed to use a knife and fork or force them to share a plate, it breaks down a certain barrier and and it's not by accident. I think that you can get a different response from the same. You can have the same talks, but you get a different response on whether you think of it as a theatre set or as a you know, a conference.
AJ:Yeah, yeah, beautifully put. Yeah, there's some real principles for community period in that isn't there, and the default would be that, and then you could hide away when you need to, rather than the the reverse, which is sort of how we've structured things a bit with our thoughts yeah, yeah, hide away by default, and that can really really bury you all right. Before we talk about a bit of music, and maybe a bit of music that came out of the festival, I have to come back to where we did start. Matthew, how did you go financially in the end?
Matthew:Oh, so did we talk about the $71,000 loss that my treasurer flagged at one point?
AJ:Not quite. You said something about $30,000 at one stage.
Matthew:Yeah, he made a mistake, but it was $31,000. No, we didn't lose money, well done.
AJ:Well.
Matthew:I'm still waiting on a lot of invoices to come. Here we go. It's one of these things is like I really need you to invoice me please invoice me, you know we're going well, you're really good payer.
Matthew:I'm like I need to get this because I can't do a spreadsheet right. So you'd like, yeah, I'll need to get my treasurer back in, but no, I believe we look, it doesn't pay for my time or anything, but there will be enough money to pay for the structural changes we had to make to the farm, to pay for everybody who needs to be paid. There's still a whole bunch of people who weren't paid or weren't paid enough. But no, we should come out of it, break even maybe, well, hopefully, with a small, uh, admin fund to be able to kick off the next one. So there's actually, you know, someone can be paid to do the clerical work that there has to be done to start another one, because, um, that again relied on the bank of saudi and matthew and some goodwill this year. And we'd like, you know, if you want things to be sustainable, then they have to be financially sustainable as well. So you know, yeah, that would be our hope, but no, we're really stoked, anthony, oh.
AJ:I'm blown away.
Matthew:Yeah, look, we had some really great sponsors, but in the end it was actually government money. Is that right? Yeah, yeah, we got a Department of Agriculture grant that allowed us to film everything, to bring in a whole new level of talks and other stuff, and without that it would have made a small loss.
AJ:So yeah, that's Tassie Department.
Matthew:No, no, that was the federal government actually.
AJ:That's good to hear, yeah.
Matthew:You know the Tassie Department of Agriculture less interested, you know, but yeah.
Sadie:We got money from business events Tasmanian. Yeah, we got some state money.
Matthew:We got some state money like any conference can if they've been tracking state visitors and so that was super helpful. I mean, that's what sort of gave us the confidence to go. Well, this is something we could potentially do. Did you hear that cough? That's the result of doing a festival.
Sadie:That's me going slow down.
AJ:Yeah, yeah, visceral representation. Say no more. Okay, all right. So was there some music out of the festival that perhaps captured you as well, that we could make mention of here?
Matthew:Yeah, so we had an incredible trio. A woman named Claire Anne Taylor came, and I think it's called my Mother is a Mountain, yeah.
Sadie:My Mother, the Mountain, m.
Matthew:My Mother the Mountain. So Claire's, I think, born down in this part of the world and lives down this part of the world, and so the idea that the I think it's about Kunanyi, mount Wellington. You know my mother of the mountain, you're all there. Yeah, she writes songs that have a lot of resonance and she's got this beautiful husky, you know, voice. That, yeah, I have to say, I walked into the because it was a bit separate from where the conference bits were and I walked in having dealt with the woman, with the migraine and dealt with a few you know, the toilets running out of water and all the things that we dealt with during the day, all the tiny little, you know admin, and I walked in and there's Claire belting out this song and I reckon my smile stretched, you know, around the back of my head because I was just like, oh my God, we got through it and we've got this incredible music and everyone's having conversations.
Matthew:I just stood there and watched like 13 different conversations happening while she was singing, you know, and yeah, it was just beautiful.
AJ:Beautiful. I'm so glad you got that moment, Matthew, when you got to take it in that way. That's awesome, and Sadie, for you, did you get to pick up some?
Sadie:I was just elbowing Matthew, then going Claire Anne Taylor. Claire Anne Taylor.
AJ:Oh there we go.
Claire Anne Taylor:I booked her. I remember her.
Sadie:We had this other beautiful singer too, Esther Cook, who runs the local Whole Foods shop.
AJ:Oh, there we go.
Sadie:So she came for the cocktail party because she has this insane sort of soul-like voice, love it. And she came with a guitarist and they did sort of standards and it was really a folk song.
AJ:It was very beautiful, very beautiful, and I like how distant from the original what have you done? Moment where you went apart, you left the building, that actually, at the end, with this pinnacle moment of thinking about the music, you were utterly united. It's symbolic and a great place to end. I can't thank you enough. I'm blown away that you guys pulled this off and your team and I, you know, personally hope there's another one. I'll get to hear that one.
Sadie:Yeah, yeah, because you might be back.
Matthew:I have to say, when terry mccosker was stuck in sydney, who was supposed to be looking after a whole tent for you know, running a tent for a day, and we're like, oh, we just have to find someone to fill in. Um, there was this moment of well, if anthony was here anyway, we're luckily we got kirsten bradley from milkwood who did the most incredible job.
Matthew:You know, 8.30 at night. Hey, guess what? At 8 tomorrow morning you've got to be on stage for five hours. So she pulled it off. But there was this thing of like oh, luckily we have friends who can do this sort of stuff.
AJ:I tell you, this is the thing. The pieces are there, aren't they? We have the people and the skills. That's a great example, and Kirsten's another person. I look forward to meeting at some stage, and there would have been many at that festival. So, yeah, I hope there's another one. I will definitely be there. We are going to be back for at least the Regen WA conference in Perth in September. But thanks for speaking with me, guys. I'm so glad you were both here. Thanks, Sadie. Look forward to seeing u when we're back a somewhere sometime.
Matthew:No, worries, see you on one side of the country or another yep, cheers.
AJ:Thanks again, Sadie, for being here too, hey nd uh thanks for your support of this as well. Thanks, cheers, guys.
Claire Anne Taylor:inging when I die. I'll live on in your smile For years after. I'll be right there in your laughter. Oh, she's singing when I die. Oh, live on in your smile. Oh, for years after After I'll be right there in your laughter. Ah, ah, ah, ah, hey, hey.
