The RegenNarration Podcast
The RegenNarration podcast features the stories of a generation that is changing the story, enabling the regeneration of life on this planet. It’s ad-free, freely available and entirely listener-supported. You'll hear from high profile and grass-roots leaders from around Australia and the world, on how they're changing the stories we live by, and the systems we create in their mold. Along with often very personal tales of how they themselves are changing, in the places they call home. With award-winning host, Anthony James.
The RegenNarration Podcast
249. Journey to a Future Council: Damon Gameau (‘world’s best movie director’) on his new film
‘School of Rock’ meets ‘An Inconvenient Truth’. Damon Gameau, director of award-winning, chart-topping documentary films 2040, and That Sugar Film, takes eight kids on the ultimate school excursion: a road trip across Europe to challenge powerful leaders and find solutions to our greatest challenges. That’s how the bill reads for Damon’s new feature documentary film, Future Council.
The group’s mission was to take the conversation from the streets, into the boardrooms of some of the world’s largest polluters and most influential companies. Astoundingly, it resulted in the children forming a ‘Future Council’ to advise and influence those companies.
It also resulted in a transformative personal story for Damon. One of the most popular guests on this podcast, and a former award-winning actor, Damon had hit a self-described ‘swamp of sadness’. But as this film emerged, so did he. Some of this story isn’t quite ready for public consumption. But some of it, you’ll hear here.
Along with some wonderful behind the scenes stuff, moments of revealing tension in the film, the challenge to even get it released, what else is going to happen as the film is released globally this year, and some amazing early reactions - including being invited to screen it at the UN.
We talk soon after that took place, which also happened to coincide with the screening of the Kachana Station story on Australian Story late last year (now nearing 1m views). So we start with that. And we close with a rousing tune from Future Council’s soundtrack.
Recorded 4 November 2024.
Title slide: The Future Council with Damon Gameau.
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Music:
We are the Kids, by Bunny Racket.
Stones & Bones, by Owls of the Swamp.
Circle of Life, by Letra (from Artlist).
The RegenNarration playlist, music chosen by guests.
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Like with 2040, we did a lot of school screenings and had some great questions and we got sent in some amazing things from school groups. So I always knew that the kids sort of were switched on to it, but I think that was six years ago, and so just seeing where even that generation's come to now in terms of their level of understanding, that was like oh, hang on, no, this can't be a short thing. We've got to turn this into something more meaningful. Not knowing what that was and then, as we filmed, just seeing that unfold and seeing the kids go no, no, we want to have more of a say. We want to set up this thing where we're talking to more people, and we want other kids around the world to join us.
AJ:School of Rock meets an inconvenient truth. Damon Gameau, director of award-winning, chart-topping documentary films 2040 and That Sugar Film, takes eight kids on the ultimate school excursion, a road trip across Europe to challenge powerful leaders and find solutions to our greatest challenges. That's how the bill reads for Damon's new feature documentary film, future Council. The group's mission was to take the conversation from the streets into the boardrooms of some of the world's largest polluters and most influential companies. It resulted in the children forming a Future Council to advise and influence those companies. And it hasn't ended with the film.
AJ:G'day, Anthony James, here for The RegenNarration, your independent, listener-supported portal into the regenerative era, with thanks to incredibly generous listeners like Dianne Haggerty and Peter Bate and your families for being paid subscribers for over three years now and supporters long before that. If you're not yet part of this great community of supporting listeners, I'd love you to join us. Get benefits if you like and help keep the show on the road. Just follow the links in the show notes. With all my gratitude, uture Council also resulted in a transformative personal experience for its director, one of the most popular guests on this podcast and a former award-winning actor too.
AJ:Damon had slumped into a self-described swamp of sadness, but as this film emerged, so did he. Some of this story isn't quite ready for public consumption, but some of it you'll hear here, along with some wonderful behind the scenes stuff, moments of revealing tension in the film, the challenge to even get it released. hat else is going to happen as the film continues its festival run and approaches global theatrical release this year, and some amazing early reactions to the film, like being invited to screen it at the UN. Damon and I talked soon after that UN screening took place, which had our conversation also coinciding with the screening of the Kachana Station story on Australian Story late last year which, by the way, is now nearing one million views. So we start with that and we close with a rousing tune from Future Council's soundtrack. Greetings, my friend. DG: Is it going to work? AJ: We were in some vortex last time.
Damon:We weren't meant to speak, , that's my interpretation.
AJ:We totally weren't, because I even troubleshot stuff with Olivia and nothing was wrong. It's just that was amazing. Anyway, good to see you, mate.
Damon:Likewise, you did so well last night. I watched the Kachana thing last night and far out that came up really well, didn't it?
AJ:Didn't it? DG: Did you see it? AJ: I did, I saw it this morning.
Damon:Yeah, it was beautiful, well spoken mate, well articulated. And what a story Far out.
AJ:Thanks, mate, what a story.
Damon:I remember listening to that podcast that you did with him. It would have been a few years ago, was it?
AJ:Well, the first one was 2018. So you know, the same trip that ended up at your place, that's right. So very early days, you know. But I'd heard about it and, sure enough, I gave him a ring as we neared. I'll never forget it. Gave as we need, and you don't know what. You know Kimberly Kettleman. Not even a road to his place, like is he going to want to pick up the phone?
Damon:Yeah.
AJ:But he was so welcoming, he said, yep, come to Kununurra, we'll fly you in. And it was just quick, just a couple of days, but yeah, then we were there three years after that, which was basically as soon as we could, and stayed a week and a half, and then, two years after that, another week or something. It's amazing to think, though, that you know, even in their narrative in that, in that show it, it still felt persecuted until very recently, so, in a sense, it was like we ended up being part of the turning for them I can see in retrospect where people were showing some recognition A hundred percent mate Again, and this is the potency of story and narration and amplification.
Damon:And suddenly this lonely guy copping shit out in the middle of nowhere you know gets some respect from elsewhere and that changes the whole dynamic. That was beautiful man, and just how beautiful that landscape was, oh my God. Yeah, and just their willingness to go. No, no, if we have to go to jail for it, so be it and you know his wife, his wife, for all her softness and humility.
AJ:I actually said in the interview they just didn't use it, but I was sort of wishing they would. It's almost the one line I wish they had used, which was when she said to me on first meeting the times that she could have given up. She said but I didn't want my kids to see a mother that gave up. So she comes across as this humble. You know I would have left by now, but nah, she was as steely as he was.
Damon:Yeah, I reckon too. I reckon that was clear, especially when she was saying that. You know, I thought about leaving multiple times but I could see how much, you know. She stuck it out Like it's just, and that is tough terrain. That is not popping out of the local community for some support. That is isolation, exactly. Anyway, how are you? Yes, no, I'm good man, really good. It's been a challenging two years in a number of ways, but I feel like I've um, I've definitely popped out the other side of a dense forest and feeling, breathing in some nice, fresh, clean air and feeling like a new chapter has begun, which I'm super excited about. So, yeah, there was a.
Damon:I did a panel recently with Tyson Yunker-Porter. I watched him on the panel. He was talking about there's a crocodile dreaming story around, a man or a woman that gets a deep wound and that deep wound is actually what flows out of that is what he called love magic. And I feel like, yeah, I hadn't had that in my life and I think we all need to somewhere if we want to live the true, rich, potent life that we want to. And so, yeah, I feel I walk through my, my swamp of sadness for a couple of years and and now I feel like the love magic starting to come out and glisten and do its thing. So so it's nice. It's nice to be on the other side of that 100%, mate.
AJ:That's it's beautiful to hear. I think the last time we saw each other wasn't too long before we left the country. It was this year, right earlier this year, and you were in perth, yeah, and you were on one leg. And I wonder was that? Do you look back at that? Maybe you looked at it at the time, I can't remember as a manifestation of the of the world to take a step is what it was.
Damon:There we go and move forward, and so the body crumbled. It's not really a complicated analogy, that one, it was very clear. Cut, is it really? Yeah. And then, so yeah, to discard the crutches, heal the wound and start walking freely again is what I'm doing now. So yeah, man, definitely an extraordinary time. Most people you know various forms, have been through those sorts of times, and if you can frame it right and find a way to push through it, it is. You end up having gratitude for it in some very complicated way, and I feel like I'm getting to that point now.
AJ:I think about the process of the film then over that period of time happening at the same time, and I had to chuckle then, having seen you on one leg at the start of the year and then the kids quipping in the film how, how old you are. They were right onto it from the get-go but come full circle to the end of it, mate. You know not too many spoilers for people, but it's fair to say you know I was shedding tears. It was, you know. I felt your previous films they're brilliant, but I was shedding tears at the end of this one and it looked like another layer of meaning for you out of this. What was it like for you?
Damon:yeah, it's definitely the film that I'm most proud of out of all the films, and I feel because it came from a different place for two reasons One was that I was going through something extraordinary, and so I feel like this was the most heartfelt expression of creativity that I've ever been courageous enough to do, to be honest, and that's part of the love magic we talked about before. But also because I think the previous films were, I guess, inherently about need or degree. I had to put myself at the centre of them, and this is completely different. This is about these eight beautiful beings and the millions of children they represent around the world, and so it just had a different layer of depth. I think, and as you saw in the film, there is a purity of heart that these children have, which I think is why they're so potent in this moment, which is why this film is. You know everyone I know that's seen it.
Damon:The common phrase is around how much they weep, and not just in terms of, oh, what these children are holding and what we've burdened them with. That's an aspect of the tears, but the bigger aspect is the hope, and they're like, oh my God, these kids, like the acumen they have and the emotional bravery and their humor amongst the adversity, like that's the tears of like, oh, like, oh, man, if we could just guide them right, whoa, we got this. Like come on. So so, yeah, man, I I felt privileged to, to escort them on this journey and and they taught me far more than I attempted to teach them really. I mean, I there was a little bit of steering from me in terms of you know, but, but they already knew it, as you saw in the film. And then they just taught me to get in my heart again and stop overly worrying or being too anxious about everything that's going on, that you're really redundant if you can't find the joy in what you do.
Damon:And there's a beautiful quote by someone I should know who said it, but it's, you know, if you want to change the world, you've got to throw a better party. But kids basically said let's make this fun, like, yeah, we're solving big problems, but let's not forget to be children and playful and joyous, and I think a lot of people in this space that we work in could do with a dose of that, which, which is why the film has its potency it just felt like such a basic human essence in that sense to me you know that it that it was the spectrum right, there was the heartbreak and there was the struggle and there was the breakthrough and the inspiration and the fun and the joys.
AJ:It just and crystallizing like that and seeing you in that position. It's exactly how I thought about it too, just from the outside, that progression in your, in your filmmaking. Even I saw 2040 as sort of a step towards getting you out of center frame because you were writing that open letter to your daughter, as it were. So you're sort of shifting frame, even there a little bit and then obviously here a lot. But with this it also appeared to be a really huge logistical undertaking. So I have to ask how long was the actual tour?
Damon:Yeah.
AJ:And how many people were along for it and how was that broader community thing?
Damon:Yeah, man. Well, I think the magic of the film that comes through is due to the complexity of how this film was made. And again, it's a little bit like Instagram is the surface and the finished product looks a little bit shiny and appealing, but there is a whole lot of stuff that never gets seen and in fact, I think the making of this film would probably be a far better film than the one that's turned out, just in terms of a number of different things. So, obviously, logistics of having eight children from eight different countries, eight socioeconomic backgrounds, eight religions, eight eating preferences like even that alone would be a big thing to handle. And then all those eight children having parents with their own sets of needs and wants and requirements, and then taking them through, you know, getting visas, and bringing them all to Europe to get onto a bus that you know I'm driving around Europe to eight different countries, of which I've only recently acquired my truck slash bus license, and so we could just stop there and go oh yeah, we haven't even taken off yet. And then and then. So basically it was me driving that bus with kids, and then behind me was a coach, like a proper coach, with all the parents on it and bags and various things, and then behind them were three camera trucks, uh, with the crew, and so there was this, you know, and then we went to, I think, six or seven countries and so, and even just trying to shoot children on a bus, and have three cameras covering them. So it feels, you know, none of this was scripted. You want to capture every spontaneous, beautiful insight that they're having, so you've got to hide three camera people in a way that's not in the children's ways, it's not confronting them. Plus, the cameras aren't getting in each other's way as well, which is a whole other beast. Then there's the sound of a 1960s bus, that just big ford bus that rattles along, um, and then you're sort of, you know, you're going to different venues and and there's obviously the children were 10 to 13 and so they only had a certain amount of capacity of which they could shoot in a day, and then they get exhausted and they start drifting off.
Damon:So all that was a really interesting learning at the beginning, and then I would just say that, yeah, you know, there was a few things that happened that weren't ideal in terms of basics, like accommodation, whatnot, so the parents, to their great credit went. You know what we care so passionately about this, this film. We can see how much the children are loving it. Let's do this a little differently. And then, I think, after about the third or fourth day, we didn't do individual hotels, we booked giant houses throughout europe where we'd all just go in together, all the cooking would get done together, all the children would be playing when they weren't filming, and so this incredible camaraderie and sense of community got formed and then we were like a travelling circus moving around Europe filming this. So by the end, my favourite scene is that scene at the very end, where the children are just acknowledging what they like about each other and what each other taught, just acknowledging what they like about each other and what each other taught. I mean, that is just an extraordinary, you know, lesson for adults even around just finding the best in people and acknowledging them, even if you have differences. And that wouldn't have happened if we hadn't have gone on this really deep immersion and journey, which had its challenges, as you can imagine, and that all happened in three and a half weeks, wow, you know. And in three and a half weeks, wow, you know.
Damon:And the children had their own emotions. They, you know, I was very careful not to steer them. There was no, I didn't want any sense of propaganda here. So we, you know, before we went and met Nestle, for example, we would have a discussion, like I'd point them to Nestle's website, some other websites, saying go and do some research about you know how these guys are impacting the planet and what you might say. And then I literally just we set up the cameras and I gave them the space to do that, and so I had all sorts of anxieties around, you know, is this going to work? Are they going to be coherent, eloquent enough? Am I going to be able to resist jumping in and having my two bobs, which I had to do? But as you can see, you know, they just stepped up like in an extraordinary way, and even that had its own.
Damon:You know, often there would be in tears after that because it took a lot of energy for them to go. I've never stood up to a world leader like that and I knew I wouldn't get this chance again and so I didn't want to let the moment go and then they'd feel this relief afterwards. So there was a lot to handle, man, and it was an honor. You know it really was. It was the kind of rich filmmaking experience you really hope for and, like I said, I feel like we're all so deeply connected.
Damon:We've now done a couple of premieres. We went, obviously to Melbourne for the premiere, then we all went to New York to do a screening within the UN, and so we've basically been living together again for the last five weeks and I just feel like you know that's only going to continue, because we haven't even released the film yet. That's all happening next year around the world. So so these children are going to just grow in their own strength which I'm watching now and their own sense of potency, of what they can do, but also just the bonds that are forming between them. Is is just beautiful, and who knows what that turns into in 20 years from now, you know yeah, it's funny.
AJ:You should say the making of could almost be a better film. I was thinking the same thing, because it's it's got to have had. Well, you've outlined it really well, but of course you've got this community. They don't know each other, they're under pressure, uh, cameras in your face, like, and all the other things you laid up that you obviously, yeah, acutely felt. Yeah, it would be a fascinating making of. Maybe that should be done at some stage. But but yeah, you could observe the evolution, obviously, of the kids in the film and as much, knowing what your working title was, to see what the title ended up, which was apparent in the evolution of that of the kids journey, that it ends up being called Future Council. And I wonder for you, how was it behind the scenes, when you're thinking it's one thing and it becomes another in that way?
Damon:Yeah, well, I think what I've learned through the films that I've made is that there is such an enormous amount of surrender that's required, especially when you're making a documentary, that there's a leap of faith there, of that you just have to trust. And it was the same even in casting these children that we had almost 1200 kids apply for this. But I just knew that the right kids and that's how it turned out, all of the kids in that film literally when they appeared on the screen I went, oh, they're coming, they're coming on. I just knew they were the right one. It was something about their essence and how they were going to work with the others that it just felt right. So I just had to keep trusting that process.
Damon:And we had all sorts of challenges again that some probably will never come out in terms of. You know, when you are taking a group of kids into some of the most powerful organizations in the world, there's going to be, you know, caveats and there's going to be questions and all sorts of things. And some of those organizations were very, very challenged by how direct the children were and how insightful they were. I think some of them were caught off guard at the level of acumen that these kids had, and so that comes with a whole set of ramifications when you're trying to release the film.
Damon:So there's been this constant surrendering that I feel like I've had to do with this film, and that's been a really great lesson because, as we touched on earlier, ironically that was exactly what I was going through in my own life. My own personal life was just you know this word surrender, just keep surrendering, man, keep surrendering, don't fight, just let go, let go. So I was doing the same with the filmmaking, which is obviously no accident, and then I just kept seeing the rewards of doing that. I kept seeing that some kind of incredible, almost miracle or magical moment would occur because I didn't control it, because I took my hands off the wheel, which is a terrible metaphor for a film. When I'm driving a bus and you didn't.
Damon:But you know what I mean, that there was an element of just let's see what happens. And that's what happened, I guess in the narrative arc that these children, as we went along, said no, no, we want this to be real, we don't want this just to be a film. We want to form a real life future council and invite not only the other 1,200 kids that auditioned for this film, but what about all the other millions of kids around the world that are like us, where there might be two or three of us in the classroom that deeply care about this stuff but we're kind of perceived as the weirdos? We now get to connect with other kids like that right around the world and start meeting these organizations, meeting these institutions, doing something in our school and actually forming some kind of connected global network where we are building and shaping that future that we want. So again, that's just been part of the trust process and again I've just watched that unfold as well of all these organizations now that are reaching out, want to get involved with the children because they feel, oh, these kids do know their stuff. There is no avenue for them to express that right now, what they know, and there's no avenue for them to shape and design their future.
Damon:So is there the possibility here of the Future Council being a much needed new decentralised institution for our times, instead of the Future Council being a much-needed new decentralised institution for our times, instead of the old clunky, centralised ones that we know are kind of crumbling in various forms? That why not let this be something extraordinarily exciting? The kids act as this moral compass in the room of these big organisations, but they also have legitimately brilliant ideas and fresh approaches and creativity. That sort of unlocks an awe and a wonder in a very static organisation that's trapped in the old system. So I do think there's a beautiful opportunity here to alleviate their eco-anxiety by getting them in the room but also breaking the ant cycle that I say in the film, that sort of spot of an organisation that hasn't thought in a fresh way for a long time and these kids get to come and do that.
Damon:So it's a win-win if we can get this right. And that's again why I think there's all these beautiful things unfolding with the film already, because it is deeply heartfelt. As you notice, it's very pure. These kids are so honest and I think it's cracking open people that are saying shit. What are we doing here? I'm not doing enough that are saying shit. What are we doing here? I'm not doing enough? Look at what these kids want to do. How can I help these children in some way to build that future they deserve?
AJ:I watched it with Yeshi, our boy, and the 10-year-old girl Nava, who's here the friends we're staying with in Baltimore right now. We watched it together and they were instantly wanting to join, because they're they too, I would characterize, in the way that you've described these kids. I mean, we just so underestimate them. And not only that made well, they gave. By the way, they gave the film 10 out of 10 and 12 out of 10. So you did well, that's right. Yeah, I'll put that on the poster.
Damon:Actually, I'll get both their names. Put that on the poster.
AJ:And not only that, they proceeded to do not one and not two, but three and maybe even four I lost count cleanups. They hit the streets and just did a CC, you know. They went out and started picking up and there was a post-Halloween cleanup which was sort of the enormous one where, but I really raked it in.
Damon:Do you know? What's beautiful about that man is that we obviously no one's seen this film. Really, we've done, I think, nine screenings, but that is the same response. So we did a screening in Margaret River and the teacher messaged me afterwards and they were supposed to go to this park for lunch and the children said no, we don't want to go to the park, we want to go to the beach and do a cleanup. So all these kids went. They've already started their own future council in their school, so we haven't even put out the materials yet.
Damon:They're coming out in february, but we've already have a couple of schools that have set up their own future councils, such is the need for this and the and that's again, this is this surrendering piece where this is actually nothing to do with me. I, I, you know, yes, we're steering the bus, but people are more and more people getting on the bus and they're adding to it in their you know, and that's when you know there's, there's something magic afoot. Um, because that's what it does. It elicits this, this need to go right. I gotta get involved. Look at what these 10 little joseph from bali, who's already collecting, recycles and using the money to put kids through school, and he's 10, so what am I doing? So are you?
AJ:kidding me? Yeah, I know, but they're all, of course, got their particular angle like that. That's just quite something. And to think that you had 1200 or whatever who probably could have fit the bill we could have taken 400 kids on this bus could have.
Damon:We could have 400, and that's what was the most hope. Even doing the auditions I thought, oh my God, like, look at these legends and they're God, and I guess it makes sense. Yeah, they've got so much access to information that you and I and older generations never had. So we still almost project onto them oh, they're just kids. But we forget that they're actually absorbing so much content now that they do know far more than a lot of adults do around this sort of stuff. So again, now's the time to give them a voice, because they do know their stuff. So let's find a way to bring them into the conversation.
AJ:That's very interesting, you know. It does bring to mind some of those meetings. So there were a few big organizations they met with and their journey evolves throughout. Nestle was first off the rank and, yeah, I want to say it here too that Coke and Pepsi journey evolves throughout.
AJ:Nestle was first cab off the rank and yeah, I want to say it here too that Coke and Pepsi had said no. So kudos to Rob and Nestle for doing this. It is interesting because that sort of I mean I don't want to sound harsh, but almost condescending tone yeah, it was there, probably with all of them except the last one, but it adjusted, obviously as it became apparent that they were nobody's fools. But wasn't it telling, mate, when Rob Bliss says something to the effect that, despite being the biggest food company in the world, there's not much that they could do alone? And perhaps my favourite part of the film maybe outside of the end that we've talked about is your deft cut to cc with the kids cleaning up the beach.
Damon:That contrast in that moment was like wow yeah, man, and I think, look I, you know, I really wanted to give these people a go. A big part of this film was to try and humanize the people that are within those organizations because, as you and I both know, many of them deeply care. This is the humanise the people that are within those organisations because, as you and I both know, many of them deeply care. This is the problem with the system. We're all trapped in it. We've got to feed our kids. But he had a great opportunity there to answer that differently and I do feel like he tripped himself up and so you know, the kids were right, they saw that moment and they went for him in a healthy way and said that's not good enough, mate, like I'm sorry, you are the biggest in the world, you're the biggest food company in the world, you're the third biggest polluter. You can lead the way. But he deferred that responsibility and, as you said, it's juxtaposed with these kids are out there every weekend picking up the plastic. And while you're saying, this little Sky, for example, who is 11, from Wales, when she came out to Melbourne for the film festival, she felt so uncomfortable about the emissions she was going to emit to fly from Wales to Melbourne that she collected plastic for 50 days in a row at her local beach and collected 290 kilos of plastic. Wow, when she's doing that and then one of the heads of this massive company is again deflecting all this nonsense while they're making 5 million Kit Kats a day and 38 million pods of coffee out into the ecosystem. It's like I'm sorry, mate, but you do need to be held accountable there. And look, there's been some pushback there. Obviously there's been some again.
Damon:This has been a challenge to even get this film out into the world, but you know we're right here, aren't we? As you and I know we can't. We've got to have these conversations now, like, come on, we can't keep misleading, and especially, you know, these children. That was a big caveat of doing this film. I'm not going to do it if we're going to not allow these kids to say what needs to be said. And, yeah, let's give them that opportunity. Can you just pause? I've just got here some kind of vacuum cleaner. Just one second, it's outside. Okay, sorry, brother.
AJ:That's all right, mate. Leaf blowers. It's ironic that they were cleaning up at the time we're talking about cleanups and we told them to bugger off. I don't know if a leaf blower is technically cleaning up at the time we're talking about cleanups and we told them to bugger off.
Damon:I don't know if a leaf blower is technically cleaning up. I think it's deferring responsibility. It's like pushing the rubbish off a path to make it someone else's problem, which is kind of the perfect analogy, I think.
AJ:It is the perfect analogy and because, of course, fall is falling here right and before Halloween, the leaf blowers hit the streets. I think we were talking, weren't we, on the eve of it originally. So, yeah, the leaf blowers were out on force and I did watch one, because you know a lot of leaves on the ground already. I did watch one actually just blow the leaves next door, so their leaves went from you know half a foot deep to a foot deep Like dude. What are they going to do? That's very.
Damon:Nestle man there Like dude. What are they going?
AJ:to do. That's very Nestle man. There you go, that's the Nestle move. It does say and it did hit me through that experience watching that in the film the degree to which well, I guess you said it before the degree to which it's been normalised, that we just this is the way. Still, even with the intent, and you know, again, bless, it was beautiful how Rob took the peak of that moment with Sky and spoke to his fatherhood. In that way he did the perfect, he did get back to the human essence and I don't doubt it. But wow, it says the normalization. And you know what else really struck me, mate, and I've said this to a few people, the fact that he said to the kids well, you know, we sort of need this packaging because some of our food stays on the shelf for not just months but years.
Damon:And I'm like whoa, I'm not sure I want food like that, let alone the wrapping yeah, I think food is a very generous term as well which is the other layer of this is like yeah, how much of that stuff does people actually need, let's be honest, and what impact is that having on their own bodies, let alone the oceans and the planet? So yeah, it's a big, complicated story, mate, but you just touched on something interesting there, which what was really clear with all those interviews was that the potency and power of the children is that they did force these people, and particularly the two men, to drop the corporate mask, to drop the corporate veneer of they're so used to talking in certain terms and a language and then suddenly, when there are children in the room, that stuff doesn't cut it. They have to find a way to simplify, like, they have to find a way to simplify, but they also have to find a way to answer the common sense questions that are coming back at them that they've bullshitted themselves into over the years, you know. So that's what I was saying before why the kids, if we can get them the platform, act as this beautiful moral compass without actually doing anything.
Damon:It's just their presence in those spaces does something and humanizes people, and that's where their power is? I think right now it just oh, shivers. Okay, what would I say to my child? The decisions I've made today in this board meeting? How would I tell my child that? Because how's that going to impact their future, what I've just done then? And at the moment, moment, they're out of sight and they're invisible and we compartmentalize that, that humanity, in the family life, and then I go to work and they're separate.
AJ:But I think that's come at a great cost because we're not thinking about how it will affect our children's lives in a meaningful way yeah, and part of you marveled at the way you know, because, knowing also some of our conversations, even after 2040, you're like the next one's got to be systems really systemic, and you were talking to some serious heavy hitters and to see you come to this moment and you found a way to do that in a way that excites kids, it's like dude kudos to you. Way that excites kids, it's like dude kudos to you. But then, yes, it does say something about the capacity of the kids to get it. I mean, there was this beautiful moment I think it was. Joseph talked about the. Was it the waste dynamic? I think it was the waste dynamic where he said it's like emptying a bath with a spoon while you still got the taps running yeah, I mean could you say it any better?
Damon:I know, or I think jockwin, who's 14 early on, says, yeah, what nature does is a circular economy, what humans do is a linear economy. It's like, oh man, okay, so, yeah, no, you're right, mate, that that was. And I've got to give acknowledgement there to the wonderful nate hagan so you probably know nate, who does the great simplification podcast, and he wrote a paper called the super organism some years ago, and and I reached out to Nate and said, look, I just love this because what it does is just give such a beautiful analogy for the system at large that we often don't see, I think, particularly some kids. You know you're focusing on ocean plastics or you're focusing on emissions and you're not seeing the architecture that's creating both, and so that's why there's this fairy tale that weaves through this film with the kids about this mythical creature called groth, which basically starts out as this really benign kind of creature that helped us trade goods between communities that we needed. That's fine, but then it started to grow more and more arms as we traded more things around the world, and then it discovered fossil fuels and just had this huge boost of energy, and now it's fouling its own nest and now it's plundering its own home because it's grown too big. And yet we keep growing, growth bigger and bigger each year. So that felt like just a lovely way to discuss systemic issues through this fairy tale lens. And so when we go to Nestle, you know you can see this is how growth Nestle is impacting growth, all these millions of things they're doing every day that are getting bigger and bigger. So again, we try and fight things with renewables. We're just not making any dent because growth is getting bigger and bigger.
Damon:We've had talk about chemicals on our food since Rachel Carlson. We've still got more chemicals than we ever have before. This is why these things are still occurring and we haven't had the headway, despite all these big movements is because growth keeps growing bigger and bigger every year, and I think the kids really, you know this is why these things are still occurring and we haven't had the headway, despite all these big movements is because Groff keeps growing bigger and bigger every year and I think the kids really got that and in fact, even in some of the Q&As they've talked about like we've just got to how do we tame Groff, or have a Groff mindset, or it's just been lovely to watch them reinterpret in their own ways what that means and have discussions with audiences about that and I think I hope that continues as well just to get kids to understand and see these problems that they're systemic, they're not isolated.
AJ:It is interesting when you often I find it too you just need to provide a little bit of context or impetus and the insight does flow, like with those kids. In those moments they totally get it, which it does say something to the generation. I think that you you talked about yeah, all right. So you premiered this at the melbourne international film festival. It went really well and you got an invitation to the un to climate week and you screened it there. Tell me about the screening and the week. How did it go?
Damon:oh man, big conversation. So, yeah, the the screening in melbourne was extraordinary because all the children flew in from around the world. So so we were all there together again. We all stayed in the same house for a week and you know, you, you're never quite sure no one had really seen the film and you know, especially as a, as a filmmaker, you're always, even though you feel something about it, it's it's very hard to know how an audience is going to respond and and just feeling that euphoria, like you said, all the tears you felt. You know, the kids got a standing ovation at all of their screenings and more than that, it was just watching even the screenings we did with children in the room, the amount of hands that would go up after the film, and, and I feel like the film just created this safe space in the room for kids to be heard, and so children just had a million questions. We had to end Q&As with still 15 hands in the air because they wanted to speak or they wanted to join the council, find out how they can align with these kids. So I was like, oh OK, all right, there's something going on here. This has got its own little magic that you can't predict. And then I got this phone call basically saying, you know, from someone who works at the UN Foundation saying can I see the film? Because the theme of UNGA it wasn't Climate Week, it was the UN General Assembly, was Summit of the Future. And then they watched the film and so basically I said to the kids hey, guess what? We're all going to New York now, we're going to do a screening inside the UN and they also want you to be involved in various events that open the summit and you know functions. And Ruby, who's in the film that you saw, who's Jimmy Barnes' granddaughter, who just sings about her eco-anxiety. She got to sing at all these you know high-level functions and sing her songs about what she's feeling about the world. So it was this crazy beautiful journey that was mad and again, and a whole nother logistical exercise of managing these kids in New York and all the activities and also just protecting them.
Damon:I guess probably one of my biggest takeaways was there is a tendency to want to extract from these kids, or kids in general oh, aren't they cute, they know about the climate. Let's roll them out as a nice little like no, no, no, not, not these kids, you're not doing that. So again, there was some tension and pushback there around these. These kids are the real deal Like. Unless you're going to listen and acknowledge them, then let's not play this dance anymore, because that's an old dance that doesn't work anymore. How can we actually see and hear these children legitimately?
Damon:So that was an interesting exercise and then also I would say that one of the great privileges we had was the children got a full tour inside the building and they got into the Security Council where all the countries come that are in conflict to mediate. They got inside the General Assembly Hall. You know Antonio Guterres walked past with 15 of his entourage, looking He'd just been on the phone to Putin for three hours. He was just literally over. My own daughter wrote in her diary he looked like a man with the weight of the world on his shoulders. And so to see that and also just to be inside what no doubt has been an incredible institution for a long period of time and was built at a certain moment in our history and has done extraordinary things that we don't even know about, because they've managed to diffuse tensions that we would never have heard about in the media. There's no doubt about that. But what? Also?
Damon:What felt very clear was that it was built for a different time and and there was no light inside and there was no nature inside, and and there was largely men in suits with sullen eyes and the art on the walls my god, you know this. This is the biggest decisions that affect all of us, and and the art was, you know, often the worst of us. It was just, you know, people in chains and people getting stabbed. It was like you know, I called it russian gulag porn. Sometimes it was just, it was just too much. It was so dark and and and there was no love, there was no light, and and then walking through with these little radiant heartbeams that we have. This is so clear that there is a desperate need to build something new, build lots of new things, not one thing, but many new versions of institutions, and I feel like what the kids have started with the Future Council might be one of those that might contribute. So it was terrific.
Damon:I think I knew some of that intellectually, but I needed to go inside and feel it. And also just the pomp and pageantry of global power. That's the thing that also took my breath away. The you know my daughter burst into tears the first time we saw it, because it was just, you know, huge cavalcades of the leaders turning up with big army trucks and ambulances and choppers overhead and drones and boats and guns everywhere, and just that intensity, yeah, was a lot, you know, for these kids to go, holy shit, you know, and took us a long time to get anywhere inside the buildings. It is a, I get it. You know, netanyahu was there and Zelensky was there.
Damon:This was a big gathering and there were protesters on the street. I get it. But it was also like, oh, look at this, still what we've done, look at what we, how we make our decisions, and look at the energy that surrounds it. You know, there was lots of talk of policy change, there was lots of talk of investment and there was lots of talk of technology, but there was no talk of values change. There was no talk of love or, like I said to you, the last scene in the film when the kids are sitting around. That's the goal, that's the stuff we need that's going to change the world, not the same tools and the same thinking that's got us into this mess, and that was just crystal clear.
Damon:Being there with these kids.
Damon:It was like, oh okay, okay, they really are sitting outside this and offering a different way, and that's not easy.
Damon:Of course, this is very, very easy to talk about, but I think I just I deeply felt it and I had moments where I felt in tears and very upset at this organisation, the UN's not going to get us to where we need to get to. I think I needed to go and realise that. I think a lot of people already know that, but I just needed to feel it. And then I also had tears of hope, of like, oh yeah, but we've got something here. Who knows what this could turn into? We've just got to make sure the right people get around these kids and we get more kids into this and let them start to build those new things as they move forward. So it was a really valuable experience, as chaotic as it was. I went there with my own daughter and my father, which was lovely to share that with them, but I definitely feel like I needed to have a deep, felt experience to motivate me for moving forward with this project.
AJ:That is so interesting, mate. I was just talking about this essentially with Douglas Rushkoff when I was in New York as well, because we just missed each other. Obviously and you know I'm also I also hasten to add, I appreciate the people in there who invited you and the kids in, right, so they're seeing it to an extent to what's needed. But I do feel what you felt, that the degree of again, just the normalization of those structures is just so deep. So even when you put a bit of color in it, it's a big well, it's a big beast, it's a big groth beautiful.
Damon:That's actually a beautiful analogy, mate, because that's how I would describe even the like I was trying to describe the art there. But but it was great, you know, like all the art pieces, gray and devoid of color, and the kids, and they went into this second floor but they don't really allow anyone other than the, the world leaders and their staff and and even watching people go hang on what these kids doing in here. But what they were, they were the color, they were like literally splashing the walls with all these different rays of light and tones in a very grey space. And again, sometimes you just need to see that to go. Oh, I get it, I did understand it, but now I deeply feel what's required.
AJ:Yeah, it's a hell of an invitation too, isn't it, and an empowering one, to think that we need the variety of institutions and gatherings and scale that we've been talking about. And hey, this is one case where it's been done already and you can join this if you want, and do whatever over there as well. It's a huge invitation and it's interesting too, because I even see with our independent federal MP, Kate Cheney, back home in Perth. I've seen her campaign kicking off now towards the next federal election and it's taken another level in expression of joy and colour which is interesting because I didn't necessarily expect that.
AJ:I thought she could play a straighter bat, but she's gone. No, she must. Clearly. I haven't spoken to her since I left either. Right, she was on the podcast just before I left too, but just that. And she was candid there too. So I mean, I guess it's part of that movement, isn't it? It is real. So if they're feeling something, it's going to be portrayed, and if the community's there with them, then here we are. And why wouldn't we want to have fun? It's a classic case of what you were talking about hey, what was that line you trotted out?
AJ:We better be laughing and dancing to that effect.
Damon:If we want to change the world, we've got to throw a better party Bang.
AJ:So I'm seeing that there and I'm seeing it here with the equivalent movements, and they're up and running. There's many of them. I've covered a little bit and there's more to be covered, irrespective, again, of the result at the elections this week, but I've seen the same thing. It's doing that whole. We're going to create a life filled from the get go. If we're about the regeneration of life, we're going to fill it with life from the get go. Yeah, and we'll see where this goes. And we're not asking the UN to be disbanded or even any major party. We're not asking the UN to be disbanded or even any major party. But if those things don't adopt more of this, more of life, and no slaves of the world, whatever, then something else will emerge Correct.
Damon:That will be fast and there's a history of that. Yeah, that's always been the case that there is a cycle. I've just been reading that fourth turning book, which just illustrates that beautifully around. You know that history does work like nature does and it cycles, and there is a spring and there's a, there's a there's a winter and there's a summer, and it does happen.
Damon:And we do invent new institutions all the time, and as new as the new generation comes through with different values. And I certainly feel that with these kids and we are, you know, they are going to lead an incredible movement. Well, they already are, really. But again, that's why we just need to make sure they're able to be heard, because right now, yeah, their options are taken to the streets and then they get, you know, completely eviscerated for doing that. There's nowhere for them to express themselves. So why wouldn't we create some sort of platform where they can? Obviously, as you saw which again is one of my most, the most beautiful scenes in the film, I think, is when they are sharing their grief in a beautiful and honest way in the mountains of Switzerland. They need to be heard in that sense, but then also, once that is sort of freed out and they can move into more action. They need a place where they can do that designing and co-creation about that future they want.
AJ:All right, mate. So there's a whole other wing to this, of course, as there always is, with your work and your other production. Half Anna, back in the impact engagement quarter of all this, and I see in the credits Jade's still there as well. Yep, what's in store this time on?
Damon:that front. Yeah, I think in the past obviously this has been a big factor in all the things we've done. But this one just feels a little different because it's now embedded in the film itself. Yeah, Like the idea of this future council kind of gets birthed during the film. So it does feel like this now has to keep going, that this is what the children want. They want to invite more kids around the world. So we're just working with people now to work out what that architecture is, how do we do that properly, but but also, most importantly, to make sure that the children themselves are doing the design and the build of it. So we've we've done a couple of different workshops now with the children in the film, but also recently I met with five schools and they put forward you know five or ten from their school as well their own environmental clubs and whatnot.
Damon:To go right, what would this look like? What would a future council look like in your school? So we've got that happening. Look like for the children to have a voice somehow or act as that moral compass within some of our decision making, because obviously there's. You know, you don't want them on the board per se, because of legal ramifications. You don't want them exposed to all those things. But how do we do this in a really meaningful way so the children do feel like they're being heard and seen? And then other another thing that's come off the back of it is is sort of this idea of you know, some organizations have us and said, look, we want to work with the kids on particular products or things that they vet and think are right for their future, which is a fascinating sort of conversation. And talking to the children about that, they said, look, we'd love to do that. Only if, you know, any profits from that would go back into a fund that we would then get to vote on to send that money to regeneration and restoration projects. So I feel like to me that's quite exciting as well. Is that okay? The children might be able to generate some really interesting things here and be healing the planet at the same time. So that's all being worked out right now.
Damon:Obviously, we released the film in march and april around australia next year, so we'll have phase one of that ready for there. But then we release across Europe and America in July. So I think by then we'll have a lot more children in there. We'll have a better understanding. We'll have regular meetups. We will have worked with a lot of children already to find out what's working and what isn't, because, as you said, yoshi and your friend there wanted to sign up. It's the same. We've done nine screenings. I think we've had over 100 kids already sign up just from those screenings.
Damon:So there is this beautiful opportunity here to get it right. But again, it can't be greenwashing, it can't be misleading, it can't be providing false hope, all those things the kids have had enough of Like. This has to feel genuine if it's going to work, and I think we've got that so far. But that's just the number. One thing that I've got plastered on my head is like let them drive it. You guide, but also make sure it's got integrity. You know these kids just can't be let down any more than they have been.
AJ:Yeah, so true, mate. It's really interesting to think about what it's going to bloom into, because it does feel like a more global affair to manage in this sense and and I guess it makes sense because it looked like your original connections for this came out of the netherlands and was only going to be a short film initially, so there must have been a real um shift in relationship there too, eh 100.
Damon:Well, as soon as we saw the children yeah, it was going to be a short film and then, once we had all these auditions and then we cast those kids, it was like, oh man, this is.
Damon:There's something way bigger in here, because I think, you know, like with 2040, we did a lot of school screenings and had some great questions and we got sent in some amazing things from school groups.
Damon:So I always knew that the kids sort of switched on to it, but I think that was, you know, six years ago, and so, just seeing where even that generation's come to now in terms of their level of understanding, that was like, oh, hang on, no, this, this can't be a short thing. This, this, we've got to turn this into something more meaningful. Not knowing what that was, and then, as we film, just seeing that unfold and seeing the kids go no, no, we want to have more of a say. We want to set up this thing where we're talking to more and we want other kids around the world to join us, and that's just kind of what's kept happening. So again, I just yeah, just keep, keep moving forward, keep trusting and rendering, and who knows where this is going to end up, but it does feel like there's yeah, there's something happening, you know, right on and community screenings.
AJ:Will that be sort of an invitation to after it's done the rounds?
Damon:100, so that, like the same with the other films, once we've done that sort of cinema run and we're sort of negotiating all the streamer sort of thing as well right now there'll be, you know, there'll be opportunities for people to do school screenings, to do corporate screenings, council screenings, all that stuff, like we've done with the previous films. That's yeah, we'll be providing sort of toolkits so that people can do that themselves and then, you know, follow up with this is how you set it up and this is how you join the global network and this is how you start one in your school or this is how you work with the council if you're a business. All those things, those toolkits, are what we're putting together now.
AJ:Good, work, mate. Well, you know it's time to talk music when we start to wind up, and it's good fodder, of course, when I come to talk to to you, because you end up with ripping soundtracks as well. So I'm going to ask you, which piece from this soundtrack might we go out with?
Damon:Oh, it is a tough call because, as you know, there's some cracking tracks in there. But I think I'm going to have to go with a mate, a local mate, who has been doing such great stuff. He does a lot of kids' shows but he's tried to introduce rock and roll to the kids. So he's got a band called Bunny Racket and he dresses up as a giant bunny and he's a rock and roll kid and it's pretty darn awesome. And so he wrote a song called we Are the Kids, which he didn't write it for the film. He just wrote it and played it to me in his garage one night. I went oh, good one, I think, to end this wonderful conversation.
AJ:It sure is, and as much because it's such a moment in the film. It's a moment of filmmaker joy.
Damon:It is. It's borrowing on a lot of tropes, but sometimes those tropes work for a reason.
AJ:Well, mate, it has been great talking to you. I think I even have a few more years on you, so I don't feel like we're that old yet. But I am feeling a sense of pride in your work, mate, and, I guess, having got to know you a bit over the years, in that last circle in which the film culminated, and seeing you feeling so strongly as you were with those kids, in those heartfelt moments yeah, heart went out to you, mate, and well done.
Damon:on another, brilliant film t hanks, mate and thank you for the support, as always. Um, it's gonna be fascinating to see what happens with this one in the years ahead, where it takes us. SONG: open your eyes and get out of bed.
Speaker 3:Slip out and off some Devon and check your head. Everything is A-OK. Hey, hey, open the door and step outside, play with the dog or go for a ride. It's another sunny day. Hey hey, we are the kids and we want to play. Come and join us or get out of the way. We are the kids and we're born to run.
AJ:A That was Damon Gameau, the world's best movie director, according to one former critic in the film. For more on Damon and Future Council, see the links in the show notes. A little update on the film's release too. It's now due out mid-year, with Europe and the UK soon after, north America soon after that and all sorts of community screening opportunities after that. You can jump on their email list for further updates.
AJ:As usual, I'll have more for paid subscribers to the podcast and the new Sub stack soon. In great thanks for making this episode possible. You can join this great community of listeners by heading to the website or the show notes and following the prompts. Thank you, and thanks, too, for sharing the episode wherever you can. The music you're hearing is we Are the kids from the soundtrack of the film, with thanks to bunny racket. My name's anthony james. Thanks for listening. La, la, la, la, la la. Ooh, la, la, la, la la.
Speaker 3:Ooh la la la la la, ooh la la la la la. Ooh la la la la la. Ooh la la la la la. Ooh la la la la la. Ooh la la la, ooh la la la la la.
