The RegenNarration Podcast
The RegenNarration podcast features the stories of a generation that is changing the story, enabling the regeneration of life on this planet. It’s ad-free, freely available and entirely listener-supported. You'll hear from high profile and grass-roots leaders from around Australia and the world, on how they're changing the stories we live by, and the systems we create in their mold. Along with often very personal tales of how they themselves are changing, in the places they call home. With award-winning host, Anthony James.
The RegenNarration Podcast
Jason Baldes, founder of the Wind River Tribal Buffalo Initiative (Part 2): Buffalo Encounters
Welcome to the second and final part of this special episode from the Wind River Reservation with Jason Baldes, founder and ED of the Wind River Tribal Buffalo Initiative, and VP of the InterTribal Buffalo Council.
The full episode was played more than most in its first week, but given it was a little over two hours in length, I also wanted to offer it in distinct parts, for those of you who prefer to listen to it that way.
We pick it up here as we move through some hilarious and powerful encounters with the buffalo. From feeding Ruby the orphan buffalo and her little horse mate, to meeting a couple of big bulls, on to what ends up being an incredible period of time face to face with the herd.
As always, you can browse a list of chapters and navigate that way if you like.
If you've come here first, you might like to start with Part 1, released a couple of days ago. That'll give more context to the extraordinary story unfolding here. But this part stands alone pretty well too.
ICYMI, you can also catch our time on arrival at the Initiative in episode 268 (more photos on that web page too), where we were welcomed by two of the brilliant young staff there, Xavier Michael-Young (Seminole man bringing his economics, finance and cultural tourism expertise, having been drawn to Wind River by the buffalo), and Taylar Dawn Stagner (award-winning journalist, enrolled member of the Cheyenne Arapaho Tribes of Oklahoma and an Eastern Shoshone descendant, and now the Initiative’s new Community Engagement Director).
Recorded 16 September 2025 at the Wind River Reservation, home of the Eastern Shoshone and Arapaho Nations, at the foot of the Rocky Mountains in current day Wyoming.
Title image by Anthony James. For more behind the scenes, and to help keep the show on the road, become a supporting listener below.
Pre-roll music: Heartland Rebel, by Steven Beddall (sourced from Artlist).
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How long have you been over here in the States? About a year, about a year.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
AJ:We've been longer away from home, but we spent a couple of two or three months in Guatemala as well. Oh yeah, because I used to live down there for a period of time when I was in my 20s.
Jason:Yeah.
AJ:Very cool. Yeah, it's been super interesting. I mean all the more, I guess, because it's in the crucible of the moment.
Jason:Yeah.
AJ:Pre and post election. But man, the stories like this, they're just yeah.
Jason:I think about this quite often, in that, you know, I keep up in the news, I pay attention to what's going on in the world and I tell you I get a little bit sad and depressed about that. But I can look out the window, or I can go for a ride, I can go for a drive, and this is the best thing happening on the entire planet, and so I'm always constantly reassured that everything's fine. Yes, I feel the same way. Through this way, I'm always constantly reassured that everything's fine.
AJ:Yes, I feel the same way through this way. I just go meet the next awesome person, like you know, pentaroop in Montana, and go man it's everywhere. Because it is right, it is, this is real.
Jason:This is real, this is tangible. You can see it, you can smell it, you can taste it. What's that?
AJ:bird that just came out of the Snape. I've seen a bit of that happening while I've been talking. Yeah, great grass cover. Yeah, very cool looking bird.
Jason:So this is the fence line. What we're getting ready to cross was the original 300 acres. Oh, wow, okay, so you see the old posts, and so we pulled out the old fence. Hey, so there's been five properties that have been pieced together and all the interior fence is pulled out, so that way they can move through without any damn fences in their way I love. And so we left them.
AJ:Exactly.
Jason:So you can see the evidence of it. Yes, but also they can use it as scratch posts. Ah perfect, and so then you know, but yeah, I like to be able to look at it and be like you know, took that crap down Right on. And that's the fence we put up. We put that up in 2015 to contain this 300 acres, but after we got that land over there, that fence came out, even though we paid for it to go in.
AJ:Yeah, the things you gotta do eh there, and that fence came out even though we paid for it to go in.
Jason:Yeah, the things you've got to do, eh yeah, you've got to put fence up and take it down. But you know, we raise the money. It's not mine. It's like we'll raise as much as it takes. Well, that's cool, it's great. Even if I had the money, I would spend it Well, exactly, but it's not. Why do I got to be stingy over how it gets spent? It's all for the buffalo.
AJ:I feel the same way, and the cool thing is, the people or at least some of these people that do have the money feel the same way.
Jason:That's right, and I've been fortunate to meet a few of them. Well, maybe two of them. There we go. I need about five or six more, that's right.
AJ:Well, there's the call. You can count them. On one hand, I know that Most people are pretty selfish.
Jason:Well, again, look what you can do with one or two people just putting their hand up?
AJ:Yeah, what if five or six did? Yeah, I think of that For those who are in that position where you can man the rewards.
Jason:Yeah, and then you get organizations too. So you've got individuals, you get organizations, and then you've got individuals, you've got organizations, and then you've got those organizations that have the networks, and so I've got an incredible network, greg.
AJ:Yeah.
Jason:They just keep coming. Yeah, that's cool, like this is bringing out all of the greatest people in the world to come here and see it, and that's awesome. Our allies are just growing the people who don't like it and the people who want to complain about it. They don't come here to visit, which is more the pity, in a way it is.
AJ:That's kind of who you need to reach so that they could spread that misinformation.
AJ:Well, that's right, and how can you judge if you don't know it? So come and find out. Come learn something. There's a bit of controversy around the American prairie too, obviously, where Pedro is, and same thing, and I think he's managing it, along with some others, reasonably well and they're trying to get better at it. Just actually get to know each other. Don't just be talking from over the fence of stuff you don't know. Yeah, from both sides. You know about ranches and about the prairie. Yeah, it's an interesting thing. You said before, though, jason, about some perception that it's it's your thing and, as a, as a founder and an instigator, that's got to be a common lot like. But how do you? I mean, you've got your rationale, but I guess what's your lived experience of trying to disavow that it's not about you? I mean, I guess creating a non-profit is part of that. Huh, because you're just one of a managing body yeah, yeah, you diversify leadership and decision making.
Jason:It's not all just me, and for a period of time it was. But you know, truth prevails and lies have a way of filtering themselves out over time. So I mean I can explain to people what I'm doing and what my goals and what I envision this. But if they don't believe me then I don't need to spend any more time trying to convince them, because over time they will see and I'm not trying to change everybody's mind on what maybe they feel about me. I want the work to speak for itself and it has. You know, xavier and Taylor and Albert and Pam and the crew now associated with it.
Jason:So I mean I have to be able to not let negativity and naysayers, misconceptions and lies affect me. So I have to kind of do some deep down kind of soul searching myself to call it out for myself when it's there. Yeah, I don't need that energy to drain me any more than what I already do drains me. Yes, and if I know what I'm doing is, is, is the right thing for the buffalo, it's the right thing for our community, it's the right thing for our non-profit and our organization, then that's, that's okay with me, like because if it ever gets called into question or, you know, people bring it back up, I think the evidence will be be there to where the lies won't make sense anymore. I believe that again, because it's real. To where the lies won't make sense anymore. I believe that.
AJ:Again, because it's real. Yeah, you can manufacture stories, obviously, like, yeah, what's real. There's another saying amongst Aboriginal folk some Aboriginal folk I was spoken to back in Australia that they never forgot where the water was. Yeah, just anchored to what's real. Yeah, but yeah, noting though that you, you have to catch yourself in it occasionally and uh yeah, some, some things you can.
Jason:Some things will bother me. I've been bothered by some things. People have said, yep, and in hindsight, or even in having some foresight, to to not not engage. Do not let that energy in, because it can drain you real fast if you let it. And I have to be reminded about that vote, you know 90 to seven.
AJ:Overwhelming support is out there.
Jason:Just keep doing it, just keep going. And then oftentimes I think about these little old Shoshone grandmas that when we brought the first 10 buffalo they came up and they said you keep doing what you're doing, don't listen to anybody. And I tell you, if a little Shoshone grandma's telling me to keep doing it, I sure as heck wouldn't keep doing it, because it's them that hold on to those beliefs and values that many of our own people forgotten to those beliefs and values that many of our own people forgotten.
Jason:And if you look out here and the buffalo are doing just fine, everything is fine. We get caught up in our human stuff all the time. But if the land is expanding, the buffalo are expanding, they're having babies, we are doing fine. We can't get confused about our human stuff because the goal is them, the buffalo.
Jason:It's a hell of a sight, jason the snow-capped mountains and rolling hills and Seven more range units and these buffalo will be able to get to the top of there. Is that right? Yeah, wow, about 400,000 acres, maybe a little more. It's something to behold, maybe in the next eight to ten years, hopefully in the next three to five years, I've got two more range units next door to this one and then we'd have 70,000 acres out there, and that 70,000 is actually contained by two highways. So that's practicality wise, makes sense as a next feasible, achievable goal?
AJ:This bit's treed, this is the waterway here, I guess yeah this is the Wind River.
Jason:This is the riparian area for the water river bottom, so the Wind River headwaters are up there, and then it comes down through here and goes over by Riverton and flows north through Wind River Canyon. Once it gets through Wind River Canyon it changes name from the Wind River to the Bighorn and that's why it's referred to as the Big Horn case. Oh right, the water rights case Got it Is because it was adjudicated in Thermopolis, where the river is called the Big Horn Right, but I almost think that they did that on purpose to draw attention away from the what they did here.
AJ:It matters, doesn't it? Yeah, and this is old Eastern Shoshone lands as well.
Jason:traditional lands- oh yeah, our reservation was 44 million acres in 1863. In 1868 it was reduced by 42 million acres.
Speaker 2:What.
AJ:And what instigated that? Did they find some minerals or something?
Jason:Oregon Trail, santa Fe Trail, right Pony Express. They all came right to the Shoshone.
AJ:Reservation. That's another one of these stories, hey of you're already into a reservation context and even then you're stripped of that, and then after that they were stripped of land even further.
Jason:Really, yeah, I could go through a timeline with you of all of the steps, all of those historical decisions that have resulted in the way it is now.
AJ:What's your experience of still being anchored, albeit at 2 million anchors, but to that traditional land.
Jason:The lands that we were on and utilized. We've always had a reciprocal relationship with kind of like what we're referring to with this buffalo, but it has to do with our foods. So the lands that we were on obviously provided all the sustenance that we needed, and for us Shoshone people that was obviously the buffalo, but it's also in roots and plants and berries which comprised our ancestral traditional diet. Certain seasons we would move to different areas to hunt and harvest different foods. That was tied to the medicine wheel represents spring, summer, fall, winter.
Jason:Well, we had different foods for every season, which meant we needed to travel to a different place or different elevation every season. So in the summer months we used to move to the mountain and we would hunt and harvest food up there throughout the summer. Then come fall and winter, winter time that would be time to move low elevation. That changed our foods and what we would hunt and gather. So, out of the big 44 million acre reservation, imagine the amount of resources that you could hunt and gather and sustain yourselves. Well, when you go from a 44 million acre to a two million acre reservation and then you start to hunt year round, you deplete the wildlife.
Jason:And then you have westward expansion coming in telling you that now you have to become farmers and ranchers. The buffalo are gone, then you rely on the federal government for commodity like flour, sugar and salt. So our relationship with the land changed with colonization. It becomes sedentary. They put us in villages, they put us in square boxes that we couldn't move from. So not a lot of us. I remember as a youngster we used to go stay in the summer up in the mountains for several couple months Really, and a lot of families used to do that, and we'd gather firewood and we'd gather resources to prepare for winter, and so then we'd bring that stuff down and then yeah.
Jason:So I think that we're trying to find our way back to that possibly. Yeah, I mean, I am, yeah, speak for myself, yeah, but I see it. I see it in some of our young people that are continuing to practice our ceremonies. We've got young people going in and learning the songs. It's there, it's alive. It's not abundant, but it's alive.
AJ:Have you learned much about your ancestry further back.
Jason:Well, both of my parents are Shoshone, so on my mom's side we come from a prominent family. On my dad's side he's enrolled Shoshone. But my dad's grandpa came from Isleta Pueblo and his name was Claude Moya and he had witnessed a murder, him and his cousin, and they rode horses north to Wyoming and his cousin was shot off of the horse and so, to escape persecution, my great-grandpa took his mother's maiden name, which was Valdez, and he changed the V to a B and the Z to an S. I was wondering about the S.
Jason:So my last name comes from Claude Moya, but he was from Isla de Pueblo, new Mexico, and he married a Mexican lady and she came from the Perea family, both from here, but more of a Mexican and Pueblo lineage. Yeah, but the Shoshone family, the weed family my mom comes from, is a prominent family here. My great-grandpa on my mom's side was a scalper custer. His name was Rabbit Tail. He was at the Big Horn. Wow. My great-grandpa on my mom's side was a scowl for Custer. His name was Rabbit Tail. He was at the Big Horn. Wow, yeah, so that's just a couple of generations ago.
Jason:Yeah, yeah, before that, you know, we were buffalo people. We lived in lodges, we hunted, fish gathered, but my grandma and grandpa went through the boarding school and so the language stopped with them. They didn't teach my aunts and uncles the language because of what they went through. So it was, my grandma and grandpa were the last fluent speakers. Anything happening on that front? Yeah, we have other families in the tribe that are more prominent or have the language more intact, and then our schools, our schools are teaching immersion language and we're doing our best, you know, out of out of only 5,000 Shoshones you know our number of elders is decreasing rapidly.
AJ:Yeah, there's a moment in time Again. Same back home for the ones who are still with us.
Jason:Yeah, and we lost a lot during COVID, really yeah.
AJ:You know, we were with the Osage back in Oklahoma and Chief Standing Bear there showed us on his phone what some of the young folk had designed in an app with language. So some of these kids are texting each other Young people I don't know how young, but texting each other in their language.
Jason:That's cool, isn't that cool? We've got a language app. All tribes here have a language app, really but they're not like Duolingo. I guess there's not enough resources into them to actually have them be a great tool. They're more like a dictionary. If you want to know a word. You can look it up, but it's not like you can learn it.
Speaker 2:You know a really interactive lap like Duolingo.
Jason:I've practiced my Spanish and stuff on there, so if we had something like that, that would be helpful, but apparently Navajo is on Duolingo, are they?
AJ:Yeah, yes, he found it he started learning Navajo.
Jason:Ojibwe is probably going to be on there soon. It's the big linguistic groups like Cree, yes, when they've got big, like you know a lot of speakers Right. We've got maybe 20 speakers left.
Speaker 2:Yeah, wow.
Jason:Look at this buffalo hair right here.
AJ:You should grab that piece. Oh yeah. That is cool, that's a good one.
Jason:I yeah, they're losing their winter coat Buffalo has. This is second warmest natural fiber on the continent, only behind muskox.
AJ:It's beautiful, isn't it?
Jason:Buffalo has 17,000 hairs per square inch more than twice what a cow has Biggest belief.
AJ:That's gorgeous.
Jason:Yeah, we gather it up and rope out of it. We give a little bit to kids when they're here. They can always take a piece of buffalo home with them.
AJ:That's awesome. So that ancestry you're familiar with, do you feel a particular connection to any aspect of it, like in terms of being able to spot it in yourself and what's become of your life?
Jason:Oh, I don't. I think I've always felt a little bit lost and always trying to find a piece of myself and probably was always looking for some level of acceptance that I maybe I'm overcompensating for. Uh, because I was. I was. I was a child born out of an affair, so I'm half. With all my siblings I'm the only only one I'm the youngest of nine, but I don't have a full sibling and I've always kind of felt a little bit isolated from my family members, because I was a bit unique and I grew up with two loving moms. I had two mothers so I've always felt like double blessed that both of my moms loved me my stepmother, my biological mother and so I've kind of always been just a little bit out of place, but I always knew I wanted to do good work and I didn't know what that looked like Really. How far back can we talk?
Jason:Like when you were very, very small. I remember just thinking I just want to do something good and that's why I like to do art. And so when I was growing up, you know, I just liked to work with my hands and make cool stuff and do painting and drawing. I like to carve now when I can find the time, but that eats up a lot of hours, so I don't have that. But the, yeah, I remember from a young age just thinking just do something good.
Jason:I didn't know what that looked like, maybe until I was about 26. And then I knew it was water and buffalo. And then you know that experience in Africa, coming home, still being a knucklehead for a while and then just finally being like you know it's time to actually get serious about what it is I want to do. So I did, and I went to school and I buckled down for 10 years to get my degrees and to come home and just do this. But I knew that it was going to take the academic credentials to get it. You know, yeah, what are you doing up there? See my there's the little horse.
Jason:Yeah, he's gonna come down here. I gotta go up there first. Oh buddy, it's gorgeous. We'll get to see him pretty close. See, I gotta go up and get his little bottle ready. And there's the buffalo calf. We'll go up and get his little bottle ready. And there's the buffalo calf. We'll go up and get her bottle ready and then I'll bring him down here. So cool, I've got another horse and mare. I'm trying to keep that little horse together with a little one so he can learn how to be a horse. There's another little horse and mare in here. So I'm gonna, you can hang out, I'm gonna run in real quick, all right, and I'm gonna fix their bottle and I'll be right out, you bet. And then we're gonna. Then they'll follow us down there. Cool, but right now they're gonna be a bit. They get a little bit nosy right now. Hello, hold on.
Speaker 2:You all good.
Jason:Yeah, we got to go down below All right. Come on, let's go, come on.
AJ:Come on, let's go. Is it buffalo milk or camu Lamb?
Jason:Lamb. Yeah, it's dehydrated lamb's milk which is higher in fat. This is for the horse, that one's for the buffalo. Oh yeah, I had to rig up a cooler so that the horse could eat while I'm doing the Buffalo. Come on, come on, sandoon. Come on, come on, come on Igloo mama.
AJ:That's outstanding. That's what moms have to deal with, huh.
Jason:Yeah so how much milk would a normal baby bottle of per day? Per day?
AJ:That one goes about three of those bottles, about three of those per day. Per day, that one goes about three of those bottles.
Jason:About three of these bottles. Yeah Wow, morning, lunch and dinner. She got fed at six this morning. This is her second feeding. She'll get another one this afternoon and then another one tonight.
Speaker 2:Isn't that six pints too?
Jason:Yeah so 18? 18 pints. Oh, three liters, 6 pints. Yeah, instincts, eh yeah, instinct, that's the way you want it.
AJ:You're getting that photo. Yes, sir, you gotta make it comfortable for her.
Jason:You're never gonna feed her the other way now.
Speaker 2:Well, I have been. I going to feed her the other way now.
Jason:Well, I have been. I've been feeding her off to the side, but when she gets a little picky then I'll accommodate a little more. But she's about good, so she only drank about this much for now. He drinks more frequently than she does, but I've been putting them in here for the last three nights now. He drinks more frequently than she does, but I've been putting them in here for the last three nights now, but I don't like locking them in here during the day, so I let them run around, but with his cooler down here. If they go up there then he doesn't get to eat because he doesn't quite associate coming back down here to eat. Yeah, not, not, not. Not every day do you have a little horse and buffalo being raised together?
Speaker 2:so, species wise, they the little buffalo not very, I mean trying to drink from the horse like you see, your horns are coming in really growth right must be huge, huh.
AJ:I'm telling these guys, they have to be 180 kilos by the beginning of winter.
Jason:Yeah right, yeah yeah, these are the orphans.
AJ:And this is Ruby. Right, yeah, this is Ruby and her twin.
Jason:Her twin is out there, don't know which one it is, can't tell. I mean, you can see how much they look like yeah true, but she's tracking, all right, yeah.
AJ:Yeah, she's strong.
Jason:When she was the first two days, we had to intubate her. She didn't know how to eat, which could have been the reason why she was abandoned too. Yeah, we had to intubate her, so you had to put the tube down her throat and make sure she was getting milk. And then she got strong enough to be able to figure this out. That's outstanding. And so she's strong. She's certainly strong. She's not weak at all.
Jason:Yeah, she runs circles around him, is that right? Oh yeah, I could take him for a walk every morning and evening and, if I can, during the day. So yeah, they walk all around the place here, and then I've got them where they'll follow me on my horse too. So I can ride out and they'll follow me on the horse what about um other enterprise you got?
AJ:you got your eye on some of that as well, or are you going to keep this sort of commercial free, as it were?
Jason:yeah, I'm really not focused on trying to do anything to market the meat or commercialization. We don't do that for wildlife and we've got to maintain that focus on ensuring that these animals, first and foremost, are restored as wildlife and not livestock, first and foremost, are restored as wildlife and not livestock. Livestock's the easy thing to do, anybody can do that. Trying to do for wildlife and having that unique classification and status means that we're shifting the paradigm successfully where that doesn't have to be questioned anymore. But we've got to create the scenario for that to even be a possibility at first, because people don't know that they're even in a paradigm or seeing it a certain way or anything like that.
AJ:There's the river there.
Jason:Yeah, yeah.
AJ:So you see, the whole drainage goes through there yeah, it's a hell of a landscape with those two yeah, that bluff over there pretty awesome yeah, and you know, we just don't have mountains like this back in aust.
Jason:I've only flown into Sydney once. I wish I could have spent time I was in New Zealand, for I travel about about a month in New Zealand. We stayed in 17 different locations there. We were looking at effects of historic wildfire. Oh yeah, and so I drove like 4,000 miles in New Zealand how interesting Up and down the South Island on the West East Coast and then big circle on the North Island. Yeah, loved it down there.
AJ:That's a cool sight. They are mobile.
Jason:That's a good sight. Yeah yeah, those are all bulls. These are big guys Looks cool when they all walk together like that. Huh, yeah, I mean, change is the only constant.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
AJ:And it's inevitable and Yep, which also means we roll with the punches you know Exactly. Stand by for the next change.
Jason:Stand by for the next change. Yeah, yeah, if you don't like it, wait a little while. Yeah, yeah, I'm still trying to it. Wait a little while. Yeah, yeah, I'm still trying to figure out what I'm going to be when I grow up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, me too mate, I didn't think it would be this. Yeah, I didn't think it would be this.
Jason:This is pretty nice. For the meantime, I still want to travel. I still want to go. I'd like to go to Colombia, I'd like to go to Peru. I want to go back to Africa. I want to go to Angola, uganda, again. I'd love to go back to New Zealand. I want to go to Australia, so I have Scandinavia.
Jason:I want to go visit the Sami people, I want to go to see indigenous people across the planet and what they're doing to revive their culture and food traditions. That's like I would really love to do that. Yeah, but that would be. I mean, I can't picture, I can't fathom that now with my current circumstances. So yeah, it's in the back of my mind and maybe working its way to the front at some point. I wanted to go look at these guys before we go. A couple big fellas yeah, big is big.
Jason:You get the feeling they know how big they are oh yeah, they're in charge they know that they can't be really, they can't really be messed with. Since he stood up, we'll go and move him over a little bit.
AJ:Slow head turn.
Jason:Should be able to keep him comfortable enough that he won't step off. I've got to give him a little second to think about it and I can go a little closer. There's a nice piece of hair right underneath him that fell off of it, xavier, you see that hair right there where you were sitting. Good fluff, it's right there where you were sitting.
Speaker 2:I'm not getting that one dude.
Jason:I was hoping you'd get that one. Pretty awesome, huh. Yeah, it's awesome. This never gets old. Never gets old. So we're gonna put on a tribal buffalo summit ourselves for November and try to get tribal participation here. Yeah, in the area It'll be at, probably the casino in Riverton. Yeah, we want to be able to put together a convening that is tribal members, tribal buffalo programs, tribal resource management focused, and oftentimes a lot of these events are all non-native organized, so it's just not the same. So we want to try to bring our own flavor and work with some other native organizations that can make it a unique conference. So you can see our calf over there somewhere in the size of these guys. Yeah.
AJ:I love the calf there, just flat out on its side. It just reminds me of humans. When they're young, it's got to sleep a lot.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Jason:Growing up. I like when you can grab by it, when you can smell it. Yeah, that's a new one right there. Yeah, it's just a couple of days. Oh man, look right there. Yeah, it's just a couple of days. Oh man, look at that. Look at them. Babies all over the place. That's just awesome. Yeah, one has horns and the other one doesn't. Oh yeah.
AJ:Something comes back, just to be sure.
Jason:It's amazing. It's like yesterday. It was like the first ten were getting off of the trailer. Yeah, it feels like a hunt. Yeah, and it's like bam, here we are. Wow, it blows me away.
AJ:It's a little better when they look you in the eye. Huh, oh yeah, they're powerful.
Jason:They've got you can feel it Definitely a very spiritual thing, something better. When they look you in the eye, huh, oh yeah, they're powerful, they've got you can feel it Definitely a very spiritual alive being. You know where. Their essence about them is still there. They haven't been messed up. This is last year's calf, still nursing on her mom. Yeah, no, she's the one that she got injured. She was being bred and she got her pelvis broke, but because she had a calf, there's nothing we could do. Anyway, she's still feeding her calf from last year, even though she's got her back. Mum's a heroic guy.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Jason:Yeah, she's a good mum. Yeah, despite her pain. That was the protection. Oh, that's cool.
AJ:That one's got a gallop up over there. Yeah, so that growth, it's a different colour. That one, it's a light colour, it is too. Yeah, that growth we saw back then the one that's still weeny, that's just one year old. Yeah, so they grow fast.
Jason:Yeah, they grow fast. These ones will be that size next year this time. Yeah, this one's still pregnant here, this one walking towards us. That's another one. She still hasn't had hers yet. She might be getting close. She looks grumpy. This one's still pregnant. This one's still pregnant Don't move too fast.
AJ:It's just a little head scratch. That's bumping the vehicle, yeah.
Jason:Scratching his head. Yeah, a little scratch on his head. Yeah, it's a fair size. Lots of people stop on the side of the road and they're over here.
AJ:It shows you, doesn't it? Yeah, there's another one right there, that film that was made in Blackfeet Reservation.
Speaker 2:Bring them Home, bring them Home.
AJ:It's scooped up, it's everywhere.
Jason:We've got one called the Buffalo Story. Really, yeah, there's actually three native films that came out the same year Bring them Home Singing Back, the Buffalo and A Buffalo Story and ours. It was paid for by National Wildlife Federation and we are thinking that NBC might pick it up, but it was made by Colin Ruggiero, so that's the poster of it. But yeah, it should be coming out as well.
AJ:Brilliant will any of these big fellas let you close?
Jason:no, once they're there, it's their domain yeah, we don't approach them, we only let them approach us, and that just gives you the so it's their decision, yeah, otherwise there could be, you know, yeah, it's just not as acceptable. Then I think you know, yeah, yeah, in a way, my home is oceanside back home.
AJ:Yeah, same with the animals in the ocean Right Dolphins, whales but if you like that, they will come to you. Yeah, yeah, but if you like that they will come to you. Yeah, yeah, it's funny, you know, like I've been paddling next to a whale. That will you know.
Speaker 2:Just decimate you.
AJ:A tail wag? Sure yeah, but they don't.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
AJ:And it just strikes me here, with them too, they're not aggressive beings.
Jason:No, yeah. And if you don't give them a reason to be like yellowstone? Where they get harassed all the time, yeah, and you respect their space and you let them approach you, then there's no, there is no aggressiveness, there's no defensiveness, there's no reason for them to be that way towards us at all.
AJ:It's very apparent apparent that and you know, you observe the same thing in snakes One of the only stories we have about animals out to get us Dogs horses.
Jason:I mean you just have respect for the animal and nothing else, yeah, but you just you've got to know your own space and your own boundary. Most people are totally unaware of their space, even their energy. Yeah, most people are unaware of their energy. They're talking real loud or they don't know how to shut it down, and animals can feel that because they're all nonverbal, obviously. So I learned about it from being around horses a lot and it's just to just be careful with your energy. You know they feel that.
AJ:It's great. It's awesome for them. It's awesome, isn't it? Yeah, he'll be telling his stories later.
Jason:Yeah.
AJ:When I was 11. Yeah, he'll be telling his stories later when I was 11.
Speaker 2:that was cool man yeah, it's the easiest place to be hanging out with these guys, yeah yeah, glad they cooperated with us, didn't they?
Jason:Amazing?
AJ:Yeah, so curious about the vehicles. What's in the back?
Jason:Yeah, scratch their face.
AJ:Thanks for that.
Jason:So we want a grant to put up a building, but it's for ecotourism. Now I wanted a grant to put up a headquarters for our non-profit, hmm, but somehow we got a compromise. So we've got a $9.8 million building going up right here. Is that right? Well, I think so, unless we back out of it. Yeah, well then, yeah, but it's like you have to raise the money just to try to pay for running it after yeah. So it makes me a bit nervous, totally.
Jason:It'll be good in the long run, but it just seems like a lot right now. I mean barely get our own, get a non-profit functioning, let alone running a whole ecotourism business.
AJ:Yeah, no, it's a whole thing when I've seen it done well, they got people in who really knew how to do that. That's what I'm going to have to do.
Jason:I think yeah, because none of our team members were set up to run a tourism thing.
AJ:Yeah, it's a whole distinct thing, but where it's done well, I've seen it be awesome.
Jason:Well, and Africa is actually the place that reminded me of it, with all the lodges and the tourism and everything that they're doing to accommodate visitors.
AJ:That's kind of what we need.
Jason:And hiring it out. Yeah, we're kind of navigating that, but apparently by this time next year we should have well underway to be building it. Yeah, yeah, so it'll be a little different. I'm going to keep my office in here.
AJ:You're in the shed.
Jason:Yeah, I'd much rather be in the shed than in a big old palace building.
AJ:What about? You mentioned the inner tribal buffalo cancer before. Yeah, so that's growing, still right.
Jason:Yeah, we're up to 87 tribes now, from Alaska, new York, florida, almost every state in between.
AJ:And there's a bunch that are really progressing pretty strongly with the buffalo as well.
Jason:Yeah, it depends on the tribe and the land base, but 87 tribes working to restore buffalo back to their lands is pretty significant. Tribes in the west have a little bit more larger land bases. That maybe make it a little easier, but it doesn't diminish the importance of buffalo, depending on the size of the tribe's reservation. You know they're all important and so I think trying to accommodate as many tribes as we can with resources, also trying to work on federal trust responsibility and getting more funding and resources to those tribes is challenging, but we can definitely see the membership growing and we've got a. Actually, the biggest limitation for tribes is land, and what we're building here is potentially a replicable process that we can assist other tribes in finding a network, growing their capacity, buying land, if that's what they've got to do, or changing land use, if that's needed, partnering with agencies or other NGOs.
Jason:So I think that what we're doing here is a process and an achievement that we can do elsewhere, and I think that's part of the beauty of this is that once you see it, you can fathom it, and that's half the battle, because most people can't fathom what we're trying to do, but this gives you an idea of what Buffalo is wildlife, land rematriation and the reconciliation that can go into that to really achieve something that's much bigger than all of us, and I think that's what's most important about this is that this is for future generations, this is for our young people, this is for other tribes, other people that can recognize how important this is, other people that can recognize how important this is Not only for the people that are here, but for all Americans, for all conservation, for what happened to bison in this country. It's just something that's really good and I just don't know how you can find anything wrong with it.
AJ:I wonder when you mention your art, does this come through your art?
Jason:Yeah, I think it does, because I really used to like to do pencil drawing and oil and watercolor and I used to do that quite a bit when I was younger.
Jason:But I was always trying to find what was what I was trying to create and that was always kind of a problem for me. Thinking about going into art as a major was because, like, I didn't know what I was going to do with art. And when I finally found stone carving, when I was in treatment, actually for alcohol, I found this old guy who was carving stone and stone carving is something we've always done With Shoshones. We made bowls out of soapstone and we made our utensils out of soapstone. We made bowls out of soapstone and we made our utensils out of soapstone, our pipes out of soapstone. And once I found that I started carving buffalo and carving little figurines of buffalo and figurines of other little things, birds and mammals. So I think about the time where I found recovery and sobriety was about the same time I found stone carving and it was like the only thing I had never done.
Jason:I did jewelry making and bronze painting, drawing, sculpture but stone carving was one thing I had never done until I was in finding my recovery. So I would say that it is in my art now way more so than it ever was. But it's hard to find the time to do art now because I'm so busy with everything else. But I can easily sit and carve for 10 or 12 hours and it just go just like that, like that, but I don't have 10 or 12 hours of time that I can put to that. So it's kind of a balancing act. At some point I'll be able to spend more time doing what it is.
Jason:I like to do Stone carving. I really want to do more woodworking. I really love camping and fishing and creating tools that help sustain my hobbies. So I like to be able to create things out of wood that become heirlooms that I can pass off but are tools. So I've been really wanting to build this camp box that fits my camp stove, fits my utensils, but it's just something you can throw in when you're ready to go. So I'm always I really like to do leather craft. I like to braid leather and rawhide, and so I'm always trying to think of ideas of when I have the time. What am I going to create? So it's either going to be leather or stone, or wood.
AJ:Did you ever play music?
Jason:Yeah, I played guitar. I played saxophone, Played in a three-piece band when I was going to school in Bozeman. I played upright bass.
Jason:That's great Good work, yeah, so since I moved home I haven't really been playing too much music. I really miss it. We'd have a couple gigs a week when I was living up there, and that was part. Of the hardest thing from moving from Montana was that I was moving away from music and away from my band and back to this, and this was obviously most important. But it was hard to let that part of me go and my bass is still up there. I left it up there so that in hopes that when I could go back we'd be able to play again. So my other band member has my bass up there the thread's still there.
AJ:Yeah, I partly ask, because I always end every episode with a piece of music. That means something to you and you know, if people happen to play and they want to play something, you can always do that.
Jason:I always like your Rocky Spine by the Great Lake Swimmers, and that was a song that I used to practice a lot around my stepmother and she'd always ask me to play that song and it was just a fun song. I liked the way it sounded. But one day she asked me if I would play it at her funeral and she had a terminal illness and we knew that she was going to pass and I promised her I would. So, uh, when it came time to her, to her funeral and her memorial, I played that song for her, and that's one of the only songs I've ever played solo in front of a crowd, but it was because she asked me to do that. Of course, when I hear that song now, it's always reminds me of her and how special she was, what an incredible human being she was. So, yeah, that was one of the few songs I've played solo ever in my life in front of an audience, but it was for her.
AJ:Beautiful. Well, man, I'm looking forward to hearing that somewhere on the other side.
Jason:But thanks a lot hey yeah, yeah, thank you, it's been an absolute pleasure. Well, you always come back, you're always welcome thank you, and likewise yeah, when you get there I will help show you around. That'd be great.
AJ:That was Jason Baldes, founder and ED of the Wind River Tribal Buffalo Initiative, and that winds up our two-part series from the Wind River Reservation. If you missed part one last week, head back for a listen to the brilliant young staff, xavier Michael Young and Taylor Dawn Stagner, that were also kindly showing Yeshi and Olivia around while Jason and I talked. There are some more photos and links on the website, including to the episodes mentioned in part one, by the way, with Jason's mate Pedro out at American Prairie, kelsey Scott at the Cheyenne River Sioux Reservation and the series from the Osage Nation. As always, I'll have more for you, generous paid subscribers, soon, with great thanks for making all this possible. Speaking of which, special thanks this week to new paid subscribers, caro Pidcock on Patreon and Catherine on Substack, and to third anniversary paid subscribers Steve Morriss, jonathan Curtis and Leanne Thompson. I'm so enormously grateful to you all. We'd love you to join us if you can get some exclusive stuff and help keep the show going by heading to the website or the show notes and following the prompts. Funilly enough,
AJ:not long after we left the team and set course for Yellowstone, we were driving through the small town of Dubois I don't actually know if they pronounce it like that and happened to see a pickup with the Buffalo Initiative logo on it. So we pulled up and found Ryan and his partner there. Turns out Ryan's the facilities and projects manager for the initiative. He told me he'd joined the team in their due diligence on this podcast before our visit too, and liked it, thankfully. He also described how the buffalo changed his life, and that's another story. Finally, I did ask Jason if he'd play that piece of music he told us about, and he was going to try, but ultimately it felt a little too soon. I spent some time streaming the song online last night while finishing up this episode and recommend it. It's a beauty. Right now, of course, the music you're hearing is Regeneration by Amelia Barden. My name's Anthony James. Thanks for listening.
