Big Things Are Changing: West Australians of the Year at Grounded 2025

Continuing our series today from Grounded Festival here in Australia, a conversation with West Australians of the Year, pioneers of Natural Intelligence Farming, and so much more beyond the farm, Dianne and Ian Haggerty. 

We talk about what it’s been like being West Aussies of the Year, and farmers. And go from there, once again, into some emotional and hilarious exchanges, on what’s emerging from the year, how different things feel now, and the call to all parties to rally now towards some bigger visions. 

Weaved into all that, we also further explore the incredible week that was here in WA, including their three big events: from the launch of a new Alliance at Government House, to a tour on-farm ahead of the Regenerating Food Systems conference (featured on the podcast in recent weeks), through to their first enormous community showcase event. 

As it happens, the new Alliance you’ll hear about has its first development workshop today – so more on that soon. There was so much to talk about. Let’s head back to the sun-drenched green of Galloway Springs farm.

Chapter markers & transcript.

Recorded 20 September 2025.

Title image: AJ, Di and Ian on stage (pic: Alan Benson).

See more photos on the episode web page, and for more behind the scenes, become a supporting listener below.

Music:

Rowdy, by The Lonely Ramblers (sourced from Artlist).

Regeneration, by Amelia Barden.

The RegenNarration playlist, music chosen by guests.

ONE PLACE HAS OPENED UP - Apply now to join us for Confluence 2026, a canoe journey on the spectacular Murray River, Australia. 

Pre-roll music: Heartland Rebel, by Steven Beddall (from Artlist). 

Chapters

• 0:00 Setting The Stakes With Leaders
• 2:23 The shock of becoming West Aussies of the Year
• 10:13 An extraordinary year
• 14:43 Do things feel different now?
• 17:38 The emotions & reality of farming while stepping up to this plate?
• 19:53 Self-organising systems in reality helped make the year happen
• 21:53 Is there more commitment coming with the increasing promises from people?
• 26:23 A hopeful encounter with the family of the Australian of the Year
• 28:54 No one here has heard of MND Alley?
• 29:53 Government House is now sourcing from the Haggertys
• 33:54 Calling all parties to the food hub proposal
• 38:04 The mind-boggling reality of the Haggerty’s terms of trade – and the win-win on offer
• 41:13 Q1 – how can we support all this?
• 45:44 Q2 – the food hub is just so exciting
• 48:34 Q3 (Barry Green) – How to convince governments of the economic benefits of slashing public health bills this way?
• 50:47 Q4 – The bigger food vision
• 52:04 Q5 – Why aren’t hospitals sourcing from our quality farmers?
• 53:36 Q6 (Will Bignell) - Scaling this burned me up, do you think you can pull this off?

Transcript

Ian: 0:38

And the other area was through the governor and the governor general. The governor general pulling us aside saying, I am so excited for this, for this. We have to do not waste this opportunity. It is such a crucial pivoting point in human history and planetary health that we get this message out there. The support's there.

AJ: 1:03

G'day, Anthony James here for The RegenNarration, your ad-free, freely available, listener-supported podcast, exploring how people are regenerating the systems and stories we live by. Continuing our series today from the Grounded Festival here in Australia, a conversation with West Australians of the Year, pioneers of natural intelligence farming, and so much more beyond the farm, Dianne and Ian Haggerty. We talk about what it's like being West Aussies of the Year and farmers, and go from there once again into some emotional and hilarious exchanges on what's emerging from the year, how different things feel now, and the call to all parties to rally now towards some bigger visions. Weaved into all that, we also further explore the incredible week that was here in WA, including their three big events. From the launch of a new alliance at Government House to a tour on farm ahead of the Regenerating Food Systems Conference, featured on the podcast in recent weeks, through to their first enormous community showcase event. And as it happens, the new alliance you'll hear more about here has its first development workshop on today. So more on that soon. There was so much to talk about. So let's head back to the sun-drenched green of Galloway Springs Farm. G'day everyone, welcome back. We're about to start the next session with Ian and Di Haggerty. So firstly, calling Ian and Di Haggerty. I hope they're nearby. Yeah, there's the hat. The hats. Welcome, Ian and Di. Actually, let's get you walking down the aisle with the big announcement of some kind. West Australians of the year 2025. Yeah. Grab a seat, Di. You can be the rose between the thorns. I just came back to the country not long ago, and uh these guys said they had a reception, a welcome at Government House, which was just last Monday. Would I help out with a little panel there? So of course I did. But wow, start the week at Government House in the Royal Room, which has a bigger than life size uh painting of Queen Elizabeth at a younger age from halfway up the wall to the ceiling, and that's where that was sort of above where Die was presenting at the lectern, and it looked, I remember I called I called you matriarch of the movement some years ago. It's progressed. You are now the Queen. Queen Die. Alright, let's get cracking. I said earlier that I've been privy to some of the well one of the decades of guts and RD and extraordinary outcomes that have been happening out at these people's farms. And that yeah, having left the country for five minutes to come back in the West Australians of the year. So here we're going to talk a bit about that. It seemed to be an irresistible opportunity. Matthew had the idea, and yeah, I'm really looking forward to it. So let's talk a bit about what it's like to be freshly minted royalty and farmers and what possibilities might be opening up on the back of that. So to start, I'm wondering if you can just bring us into the process, like how you find out, when you find out, and what it feels like.

Di: 4:19

Yeah, I guess early on in the um space they let you know that you've been nominated, and you think, oh yeah, okay, well, that's really lovely, but it's not going to mean much at the end of the day because you don't think, you know, oh yeah, okay, well, there'll be lots and lots of nominations. Um, but then at that time you've actually got to agree to um a pretty thorough analysis, I guess, of your background to make sure that you're legit. And so we said, oh yeah, no, it all sounded like all good fun, why not? And then we became finalists and we thought, oh yeah, well, that's good fun. Yeah, we'll go along with that, that'll be great fun. And then when we got there on the evening and they called our name, I think we just about fell off our chair. And um it's been really interesting, but what's been it's been a really rewarding and the cliche being a privilege, but the privilege has been in the people that we've been able to meet in that time, um, particularly the event in Canberra, where they brought a lot of the alumni of you know, previous winners and so forth, and just to talk to them because they're all people that just don't give up. They're people that just go against the odds and make a go of stuff. Um, so whether that be you know in their own personal endeavours or athletes or um, you know, just people that have made significant change in different areas and actually sit down and have your gone with them and you think, yeah, okay. And a lot of them have gone on and continued to do stuff and made to realise that you can't have any excuses, you've got to grab the moment when that whenever things present itself to you and do the best you possibly can because a lot of other people are trying to do the same, but if you walk away for an opportunity, you're really, you know, probably letting yourself down plus other people down at the same time.

AJ: 6:04

Geez, I take stock of that for uh because you don't see those people uh every day, or or you might not notice they're those people every day, but uh but well, they're everywhere. Yeah.

Ian: 6:16

To me, it really um snuck up on me a fair bit. Um because if I probably would have thought about it, um just thinking about it, I probably wouldn't have done it because I would have thought, I'm a farmer, you know, you're gonna have to make speeches, you're gonna have to do things, it's not my comfort zone. And I probably wouldn't have done it, but anyway, so die just happens to casually mention to me, and this is really early on, oh, we've been nominated. Oh yeah, totally forgot about it, you know. And then down the line, and it was a busy year because we did a a Canadian speaking tour for a number of weeks, and um a few things led into that, and we're over there and we're coming down through somewhere in Canada, and Nicole Mars has rung up and says, I'll swing by into um northern US and want to catch up with you guys, just feel important that we catch up. So we swung by and we actually just spent a few days with Nicole and her mum Michelle, and those few days were just vegging out. We just hung out together and did a lot of stuff. It was really important time to what's led into all of this because we just did stuff and just we actually a good friend of hers had one of the original boats that went right up into the Yellowstone, and we actually went up there and just spent a day floating down the Yellowstone and just talking, but we were actually connecting with country, and um Nicole brought a uh lady, a senior shaman in, and we were talking about lots of things and a lot of energy stuff there, and she was saying that you know we were getting the feeling, she was home to getting things like big things, things are changing, big things are going to happen. So we just left it at that. And um came back home, got back into home, and we got a phone call that um we had to go to California, Pasadena in California, um, to a big textile exchange. Things we'd we'd we'd been lucky enough to win this award. And I just said straight away, there's no bloody way I'm hopping on an airplane again after flying back 17 hours from Vancouver. And um, so um Matthew got dedicated to go, and so did Beck and Die, so they went off. Anyway, so I I said I'm staying home, I'm gonna start harvest. So I started harvest um with the crew, and um Dye came back when we came back, and Die said, Oh, you know, tomorrow night we we've got to duck down to Perth for this one, um, you know, Australia of the year stuff. And I said, Oh, really? You know, cool. Um, and totally disregarding it all to a degree, thinking, honestly thinking, what chances a farmer and a farmer from a northeast wheat belt or Western Australia have got of getting, you know, um West Australian of the year. And um so dropped down there, got down there fairly late, three o'clock in the afternoon, bang, chucked a suit on, straight in. And it wasn't until we walked through the door into gates in the government house I sat back and thought, holy crap, this is pretty serious, you know, like um, you know, all the pomp and glamour. I thought, wow, and then I was pulled aside and introduced to the other contestants. And one chap there, I just forget his name at the moment, he was um he developed antibiotic resistance testing, you know, so hugely important professional person. I'm just a farmer, you know, so pretty casual about it all. This is going to be a lovely evening, you know, watching all these proceedings and fast-forwarded a bit, and our names were read out by His Excellency Governor Dawson, and um just sat there shell-shocked. Thought, really? So we got up and doing the motions. You we were walking up to the stage, and you probably looked we were talking because Diane all of a sudden said, I certainly hope you're gonna say something. And I said, I kind of mentioned that, like, bloody hell, I hope you're saying something. She said, No way. So we're having a bit of a debate as we're walking up there, and um, yeah, the rest's history.

AJ: 10:07

Did you even have any notes? No, like you totally thought there was no show. No show. Wow, okay, so so then how has life changed since?

Ian: 10:18

What's the year been like? It's been a massive year. It's um it's a real whirlwind, and um I think what the Australian of the year people are very they they know their stuff, and we were pulled aside in the early stage, and you know, I basically said to them, I said, listen, I don't, you know, are we really, you know, Australian of the year material? And they said, Listen, we know who we're selecting, we know what we're doing, you know, and and I think at the end of the day, they were very correct because what it's actually bought out in us personally, and what we can do is um has been been just really thinking, and that's been from the from them and so the education that they've brought to us, but also for the from the people, the importance of what we're doing. You know, we we were throughout the whole process, we've been come to by the medical professional, senior professors, scientists, things like that, saying actually thank you for what you do, you know, and they're and what they're explaining to us is because we talk about the microbiome a lot in what we do and in healthy food, and they're saying we are getting hit with a wall, a tsunami of ill health coming to us, and we're doing everything we can to bring cures, remedies, prolonged life, everything we can, and we're we're basically fighting losing battle, and we realise that somewhere down the line they're putting the links with now the microbiome talks about and researches about someone down this other end has to start to close the floodgates of ill health, and then that end of a session, everything will start to work. So it was really important because they're just saying thank you, you know, for being there and doing that and and representing that. So, you know, that was a lot of encouragement for us to say that this is an important role, we've got to take this really seriously, get out of a comfort zone and make the best of it. And the other area was through the governor and the governor general. The governor general pulling us aside saying, I am so excited for this, for this, we have to do not waste this opportunity. It is such a crucial pivoting point in human history and planetary health that we get this message out there, the support's there. So um that was pretty important to us.

Di: 12:44

I guess also from our own perspective, is um you know, some of the work we started back in 2008 with Major General Michael Jeffrey, um who actually was the inaugural uh soil advocate for Australia, and his passion was enormous, and he used to, you know, we were his recruits, weren't we, to try and talk to scientists and the Davos mob and you know, trying to get some of that big end of town interested in these things, you know, food, water, health, social security at the end of the day, um, you know, with people around the world being pushed for food and water and social stability and things going to shit, basically, is what he described, and saying if we don't take this as a national issue, we're gonna get, you know, in all sorts of bother. Being a military man, he knows what creates those situations. So to have his, you know, passion that he had at the end of his years, he he never gave up till the end. Um, and then for us to be able to stand there with all that, and then have a new Governor General expressing the same thing. She understood the work that he'd been doing, and she says, I really want to grab this too. She said, I've got five years, and um, you know, let's do what we can. So it gives you a fair boot up the backside. I mean, Mike Jeffrey gave us one in the beginning, and then you know, to say, well, listen, what is your excuse? Get out there and do it. And I guess that's what triggered the idea of having the Alliance for Human and Planetary Health, but also having the Nourished Perth event and the farm tour, bringing those researchers on farm who they wouldn't normally get that sort of opportunity. Some of them said they hadn't even ever been out into the wildflowers, let alone being onto a farm. And so you think, well, these things have to happen somehow, and then bringing it back to the community with the nourished Perth event, just to rem you know, there's a lot of interest in food origins now, um, getting to know what good food can do for you and preventative health care. You know, the community's starting to look down those lenses. So we've got to provide opportunity, otherwise it's not gonna happen.

AJ: 14:48

Fascinating that the you know you have a 300 people event called Nourish with the community and with you know the suppliers that you've linked with, the bakers and the brewers and stuff that are using the grains and and creating these new supply networks, what are we calling them now? Relationships supply relationships. Yeah, not chains, and uh how beautiful that is. Connecting with you know royalty as it were, like with those upper echelons of of academia through to politics and so forth. And I think back to yeah, your initial kick up the butt, which you've spoken about before from from Mike Jeffries, but then that's 15 years ago, and it's been struggle, right, between then and now. I mean, sure you see stuff coming on, but it feels different now. And I guess being in the role you've got, where even that government house event was 60 people strong of the of the ilk you're talking about, and then your event in Canberra and so forth. I'm wondering for you, how different does it feel from you know, you connect with the governor general and he's creating a high-profile NGO, you might think, well, we're on the way, but there's been some hard yards, right? So is it different now?

Di: 15:53

I still think there's a a long road ahead, but now there is a lot of enthusiasm, hope, and support coming from the community. I mean, look look at the nourish event. It became it was something fun and and joyful, whereas so much stuff in the media now is you know, doom and gloom, and we're you know, it's is a focus on ill health and you know instability and things, and it was just a moment in time to actually capture the joy and say we really can do this as people, as a community. We can make these choices and work together to have it better for all of us. And yes, I think there is definitely that feeling of hope and enthusiasm from the community coming up front and centre.

Ian: 16:34

General Jeffrey's kick up the bum was we were sitting down there one day and we're having a cup of tea, and he just said to me out of blue, he said, you know what, Ian, he said, you know, the weakest man I have ever met is a man that's got a knowledge that can make a difference but doesn't do anything about it. And he just left it that. And after a while I thought, wow, that's a kick-up bum. And so we've virtually just just carried on there, you know, really, really from that. So what what we're aware of now, and that's why we bought Nourish Perth in. So what while we're we're looking at the bigger issues with the other end of town and and and here, we have to bring it to the people. We have to get the people, give them every bit of exposure that we can to what ripe food and the hope that's out there. So that was the idea of um you know bringing bringing that in. So um, you know, and that and that's what you know we'll we'll continue to do.

Di: 17:35

I was just gonna say, isn't it fantastic that flavour is a key indicator of soil health and things coming along? Well, yes.

AJ: 17:43

Well, and again, you know, this is I was talking to Fred Prevenza over in the States, obviously, and and he showed us that how many decades ago? Like it's not new. So again, it's come from researchers who've been spotting this trend but learning of these uh amazing ingredients of health. But to think that there might be a moment where it connects up is pretty tantalising. So the years played out since in a pretty busy fashion, obviously. You you've taken on the mantle of creating these sort of community events, you're doing the formal events, uh, the governor's coming out to the farm with his wife, too, meetings with high-profile people across finance, uh, research and so forth. How do you how do you do that? I guess how do you manage a year when you're still farming, but but you feel like we've got to seize the moment. This is on us to do this right now. How do you juggle that and and how has it been?

Di: 18:42

There's a couple of things there. One, having a great team around us, we have a great support network on the farm, and beyond that, they're family members.

Ian: 18:51

Um we've got a really good team, and um and probably actually having to um where the strength comes, you know, because it's a sixty sixty thousand-acre farm, you know, it um it doesn't run itself and it takes a bit of doing. And um just a team, you know, like um it it's um how can I put that the strength that they've bought together is um uh it's been amazing.

Di: 19:25

I will say also um just the system itself, the farming system itself, because the animals have got it sorted. We've we're keeping an eye on and making sure that that's you know, nothing goes AWOL, but it's so much easier. Um, yeah, when you've got a very healthy system, you're not having to go and you know, deal with diseases and all that kind of thing. It's um that's amazing to hear that system.

AJ: 19:49

Keep going with this.

Di: 19:50

Yeah, so you can actually get a fair bit done just by being there and you're not having to deal, you know, put out bushfires all the time, I suppose. And that's uh what we're all aiming for at the end of the day.

AJ: 20:01

This is what we hear about, isn't it? The self-organising systems. And in theory, again, decades of work on it, but there it is.

Ian: 20:08

Yeah, because our whole team are in tune with the environment and what's happening on on prop on country, the efficiencies are huge. You know, whether it be Beck with the sheep, Matthew with the main operations of the cropping operations. We've got a Ragnar, an Estonian whiz kid. Um rags is just brilliant with machinery. He's under huge stress at the moment because I give him um I give him two million dollars worth of harvesters to put $70,000 worth of parts in, and he's in his happy zone. But we've left him with three Kelpies, Bex Kangaroo, and a cat, and he's under huge stress. Um everyone plays their role and gets out of their comfort zone. And just the lead up to these events, like nourish, the governor's event, the farm tour, like to have three events in one week, months and months in the planning of doing, but you know, like everyone steps like Matthew. We've got one of our road trains is on the road at the moment, you know. We're carting grain and doing things for the farm. So he's been knocking out a lazy 4,000 K's a week in a road train on the road, plus coming home at night, organising all these events at the same time. So everyone's just found another level and another strength, and that's connection to country. And they're all healthy and doing really well, but everyone's relying off everyone. If it's not for that connection to country, is what's driving them for the better good.

AJ: 21:38

Yeah, I take stock of that. I take stock of that for how we each try and do that in our own parts of the puzzle, but not alone. It's come through a bit, hasn't it, throughout this and probably throughout the week? Don't don't do it alone, have the have the team, have the family. Yeah. I'm wondering what signs there are of people at higher levels that can bring the backing, bring the policy shifts, uh, for example. Are they going next level? So you're hearing a lot of talk and a lot of promise, you've heard that for a lot of years. Is there a sense of more commitment coming from those levels?

Di: 22:16

Finally, I think so, but I think that there is a huge chasm of lack of understanding at some of those ends. Whilst they might know some of it intellectually, they it really makes a change when they come on farm and they actually feel it. Um we have had some, you know, one of the Australians of the year that we met put us in contact with some very high-end high one of the big four banks, one of their top echelon. And they actually committed and got him to fly from Melbourne to our farm and spend a whole day out there with our local bank manager and the state bank manager, and they never get to talk to that level of people up the bank. And he it just blew him away. He, you know, they talk about all this stuff, and he was the you know, risk manager and so forth, and to actually see what it really meant at ground level and what some of these farming businesses can actually do for not only their whole risk profile, but what's the big end of town? You know, there's a lot of um corporate responsibility stuff, you know, social responsibility stuff coming into these businesses now, and rightly so. And how do they, you know, set their business up to you know, rec recognise that, I guess. And so we're just showing there's clearly, you know, with people looking after the land, that are that's where they've got to be putting their investment into and their support, because without us, none of that's really gonna happen, and you know, things are gonna go to you know, crap in a handbasket. But um anyway, but yeah, the fact that they got people like that flew them all the way out, and that was the only visit he had was to come out to the farm and think, okay, we're getting through. And we have been talking to a few other ones at you know that higher-end corporate level, and yeah, they've got fair big gaps in the knowledge, but at least they're expressing some interest, which wasn't really happening before.

Ian: 24:13

Yeah, I hear you. The magic thing about um the Australian of the year process is it's it it put and for agriculture, so this is one of the first with agriculture, it puts you in an alumni of people that have been in this position, Australians of the year, and you know, young leaders and local heroes, in alumni with them right the way back from when it first started. And and some of these people have are very successful, you know, they they've been there, they've done it. So we've been able to link in with them on that that that common level and get doors open so we can actually get the doors open to go with where we need to do to actually take these take these subjects up, and and they really need to be followed up because it just hasn't been while we do everything wonderful here, but back there, you know, and if people say, Oh, you know, it's the small food movement and the food movement, that's great, but everything's happening pretty good on there and and can be better, but also the big multinational movement needs to be spoken to because it's in the that middle escalons of them that everything stalls, doesn't happen, and then all of a sudden the easy way is we've just ticks two boxes through a certification, and oh, that's all happy, but it's really achieving nothing. So actually getting to them, which is what we've been doing, and really call it calling it out to a degree, you know, asking the question. Not we we've got nothing to hide, not taking no for an answer, not just being shoved away, but just just pushing through on that. So it's um yeah, it's been really important and it's been happening.

AJ: 25:53

Interesting.

Di: 25:54

Yeah, I think it's a case of yeah, having the strength and guts to say people on the land have got a lot of wisdom, a lot of capability, and you need us more than we need you. And if if it isn't for the people on the ground, it's yeah, we're not gonna have much of a future.

AJ: 26:10

Yeah, it's been something that's coming through loud and clear too, the the shift in story at that level of farmers as peasants. I mean, even just the demonization of the word peasant, but in other parts of the world that's not perceived this way. Just the stories we have behind the people and and of course the the way farmers have been marginalized, just in that way, let alone the functional ways. So, speaking of alumni, when I was asked to be a reference for you guys and my you know, an honour, I looked at who the other ones winning across the country would be, the Victorian of the year and so forth. I thought, wow, imagine if you're Australians of the year, geez, and then I was like, Oh, who's that? What's that person done? Yeah, all these incredible people, some of which I hadn't heard of before, and learning about what they're doing, and the same would have been true. Hey, these guys wouldn't have been known across the country, or by that former Australian of the year, I doubt. And I saw the Victorian of the year, Neil Danaher, and I thought, they got no chance, he's a shoe-in, and he was, but you met him, you met the Danaher family, and you had a really interesting conversation. I'm fascinated by this because his whole, I mean, what Neil's achieved, it's just extraordinary, and everybody knows about that. The MND freeze campaign, the beanies, and the millions and millions they've risked they've raised for research, but back end after it's been had. But you had a conversation with them where they were really interested in getting, as you said before, die preventative front end. Can you tell us about that?

Ian: 27:34

Yeah, no, it was interesting, you know. So we got to know the Danaher family um pretty well, and um and Neil, you know, and at that stage he didn't have his new talking machine, and um and you know, he was really connecting with us. And um Jan and Beck and the family, you know, we were super. And we're sitting on the bus one day, you know, I was sitting beside Jan, we're going to a function, and we just started talking, and she was asking the question after she'd heard us talk a few times, and she asked a question about their farm where where their original original family farm was. And that farm happened to be in what's called is it MMD Alley or MD Alley MMD Alley, that farm. And and she said to me just straight out, do you think, you know, we she remembers there when they were young people that you know there was a lot of lot of pesticides and herbicides getting used. And um she said, Do you think that could have been a contributing factor? And of course, I don't know, but you know, as we all know, it could be a very contributing factor for things to come out of the blue. So what that's done is it's just got got them really, really, really thinking. Looking back in hindsight, it was really interesting because um, and we're just so glad for Neil to be to be getting that, you know. But but what an actually we are able to have conversations with Neil. We had conversations at Optus uh an event was on for Neil just a while ago, and um just a wonderful human being. The strength that he's done and the encouragement he gives other people was just just amazing.

AJ: 30:16

I'm so moved by that question that was put to you. So MND alley, who's come across that term? Uh nobody. Okay, yeah, Will. So terms like cancer alley have been associated with the Mississippi Basin, for example, because they've got these concentrations of cancer and it Implicated the runoff, the nutrient runoff is implicated. And horrifyingly, we have found a similar pattern with MND that there's a concentration of MND in the riverina, which is where their farm was, with these sorts of issues. So it is raising the question, and blessedly, there are and a couple of other sufferers who are farmers from there who have put themselves on the line too, with some researchers who are going there. And these are the sorts of researchers that you guys are connecting with here now, too. Have been there doing their work while you've been doing your work, and now you're all connecting across the country. It's magnificent. Alright, before we throw to everyone else here and get a broader conversation going, I don't want to leave this stage without the call that you put out at Government House, that the practical call for what you're perceiving as almost a well, at least A, if not the critical leverage point possibility. Very doable, not much money, but it needs some. And the backing hasn't been coming, but maybe it will now. Let's share it, huh? Let's put in the ether a little further with the um the food hub idea.

Ian: 31:45

Yeah, so um yeah, the government house do was was absolutely amazing, and we've we've got to thank the governor for making these things available. You know, incredible people. He actually took time out and die. And I had to go to we went to Government House heaps of times just to sit down and have cups of tea, talk about natural intelligence farming and talk about the food system, but they had that big interest there. And the governor general also, and then culminating with farm visits and that, and culminating in government house now using whatever natural intelligence products they can get in their own kitchens. So now the the breads and the flowers and that the flour and that is all standard fare there. So whenever having all events and they have have lots of dining and meals and that, it is their number one topic of conversation about the food that they're eating. So they're really walking to walk as well as talking to talk. So, you know, that that event them getting behind that and getting that knowledge was just huge. And and I suppose for us as farmers, you know, which I'd like to share with people, is you can, when we think things a bit hard, you can get out there and do that. You know, we've had to make speeches, and that was probably one of the bigger high-pressure speeches we had to do because the people we had in the room, from leading professors to politicians to um First Nations people to to everyone philanthropists, philanthropists, um, head high court judges, everything there. Um so we had to get a message across in a short period of time. And the governor said to us, and everyone was sitting in the royal room, and we're walking down the hallway, and the governor said to us, You've got to make this happen. This has to happen, you know, no pressure, but um, you know, we've got to knock this out of the ground. I was sitting there thinking, she's like, I'm not a public speaker at all. And um, I've got to introduce this and I've got to set this up. And one of the things we and I I thought of a couple of ideas, what to talk about that, just two rough ideas, and hopefully, and and when you're in such a short period of time, two words put together can change the whole focus of where it goes if you don't get them right. Every word has to got right, be got right, and you can't go back over your truck tracks. You have to deliver on-the-point speech and tick all the boxes with these people. And I was just walking down this hallway thinking, holy crap, um, you know, how I'm gonna do this. So, what I actually drew on, and and I think that's where it gets back to what Nicole was on to back there, but also what you know Orl and Heidi have taught us and the connection of country, um, which we rely on, which gives us a lot of our indications and actually how we work country on onto property. I asked for help from the from the ancestors of from the old people, people here being 65,000 years. This is important, put the right words in your mouth. And we've done a few speeches now, and every time it's been pretty good. They've done it that's right. You know, it helps takes your pressure off because you know you're actually being looked after from somewhere else. So, and it's just amazing how that can fall into place and work. So, what I'm hinting to is in our whole farming and life systems, if we integrate this traditional knowledge, a lot of this knowledge and a lot of the awareness what's out there, um it can actually help you through a lot of things. Right on then.

Di: 35:26

I think they um yeah, what the question you were looking at with the food hub side of the thing is um you were hoping to try and bring you know a centre close to the city, or ideally it would be a place that could be an educational place as well, but where we could bring you know more produce. I mean we've got we're fortunate to have some relationships at the moment with bakeries and breweries that are you know creating those wonderful products for people to consume. But we want to broaden that net. We need to look at you know, Jeff and Michelle, who were just speaking in the tent in the previous sessions, and you know, making it more possible for people like that to have their food you know together so that other people can come in and there can be more of a one-stop shop to get access to more of this kind of stuff. Um, because that is some of the you know, there's too big a cost and up, you know, loss of opportunity for people trying to do it on their own, at least like you're saying before. I mean, how does everyone get these opportunities together? You can't do it all on your own, it's just such a big cost, and as as Jeff was saying a lot. So we want to try and bring that to make that a real possibility so that people in the city can have you know better choices and more availability as a starting point.

AJ: 36:38

And the farmers can have better choices too. I like the fact that your grain even just goes into the general CBH stock and is lost for the recognition. So it's not through those channels you get you've established locally, but that comes with the power of work. But so to generate those systems, I mean you've even said Ian that to expect to work even work out more farmers farming in this sort of a way is a bit car before horse now. Now we need the systems that make it possible to enable them to operate in this way with without being so borderline struggle, and you know, Jeff talked about that today too, I'm sure I wasn't over there, but that's that's been the lot, and he's now doing his own deliveries to Perth Metro. I mean, for example. So it's an exciting piece of the thing to think that something as simple as a piece of infrastructure at City's Edge could be that for more farmers, and and you guys for a start, and then others, and that uh it's a place for people like us who can't get the three hours to the farm and you couldn't handle them all anyway, but to get there for produce but also education and contact, relationship, supply relationships you were saying, including I'm weaving back to you, Ian, with the the First Nations thing, hey, to connect on that. So your connections on farm through to connecting in this in this thing. So it's something you have pitched for a a bunch of years to people, but they haven't, like the land you mentioned earlier, they haven't jumped at it.

Di: 38:02

And I guess that will like Ian was saying, that um Opportunity Government House, we did get approached by an ex-politician who uh has said, you know, the idea of co-ops and that some of the um background information around that is making it a lot more achievable and really pushing us to now go and do something in that space. So we're just gonna have to get a bit creative. Um, they've offered a bit more support for us to try and really make it happen because they're seeing that need because there is a huge loss of infrastructure. It all has got you know the big end of towns taking control, um, not offering opportunity for any smaller producers. It's all you know gone to the wayside. As Jeff Powell says, there was you know 50 or 60 um small-time abattoirs only you know 40 or 50 years ago, and now there's you can barely get a contract kill anywhere. So, you know, all those things that have been taken away from us as a population to have diversity, that local um opportunity, uh is yeah, we've got to resurrect that, but it's gonna take some funding and support to get there because you can't expect individual farmers to be doing that. But we've got to, if you know, there is some access through some government support mechanisms, but uh keeping on talking to the big end of town as well because you know some of them have got a conscious and heart too, and um they'd like to see some changes, so we've just got to keep at it.

AJ: 39:21

And there's that big policy shift in Victoria, hey, just in the last month or so, I think. Yeah, where um the regulations shifted, so there's ways to do that too, to to get it open up where microabits now can be can be done liberally and what that could unleash.

Ian: 39:35

I think that's the part of this, what Dia's talked about launching of this planetary health alliance. It's not just talking about the researchers talking about how the health systems of the healthy food works, but it's talking right the way back of actually how do we get the food to the people in its integrity. And um what we've been after prove for what we do and what Matthew's done, you know, even with the beer, for example, it is not hard to double farm gate price. So if you went to all farmers out there and said, well, you know, we can easily double farm gate price, they'd be in like in a blink, um, and not actually increase the cost to the to the customer by by next to much all. And that's what we've got to achieve. We've got to uh achieve affordable, good quality food to the customer that's um and the and the producer actually ends up getting more than what a lot more than what they're getting now, and that's achievable because of what we've been able to prove that's just all getting gobbled up at the moment by that middleman. So that's a part of these conversations that we're opening up, so we've got to do these things.

AJ: 40:36

Oh, and you talk about food security and access and so forth. The the conundrum's always been sure, great if a farmer can get a premium, but not many people will be able to access it. The vast majority of people won't be able to access it. So to solve that conundrum, actually get a way to yeah, double the price at the gate, but not change it outside the gate.

Ian: 40:54

I explained a um a scenario, and this was back in grounded in December, and I'd done some numbers, I did some numbers really quickly, and that year, what was it, what are we in now, 25, 2024. The amount of grain that we delivered into the conventional market, so just went into the bulk market, that grain which gets sold as a commodity. So we're selling our grain these days as in that bulk market as a commodity, exactly the same as we're selling iron ore. So our food is treated exactly the same as we treat iron ore. And I did the figures and the amount of grain, so X amount goes off to the small artisanal bakeries and things like that, which is which is really fantastic. But we delivered another, I don't know, how much was it, Matthew, into the dimension what 16,000 metric tons we delivered into that into that market. I quickly did the figures. If we were to put that through an industrial mill, um steel mill, milled at temperature, totally destroying the quality of that grain at a 75% conversion rate, which is roughly what they get. Then baked into the lowest quality, high-processed Wonder White loaf of bread, sold at Woolworths or somewhere for, I don't know, I've never bought a loaf of bread, but maybe four or five dollars. That grain that we delivered was worth $95 million, that grain in loaves of bread. We received under four. So you can't say there's a $91 million change in there somewhere. So you can't say that there's not room in our food production process to give more back to the environment.

AJ: 42:39

Dear me. All right. Open of the floor. Who wants to contribute? Let I'm is there somebody who can run for me? Tegan, do you want to do a mic? Would ya? Thanks.

Questioner: 42:49

Thank you. What a wonderful story. How do uh we support what you're doing? How do we get involved? Good question.

AJ: 43:00

Um opens the alliance, Di? Like what's gonna happen with that?

Di: 43:03

It might be a good Yeah, I guess um we we're just gonna start off for those that have expressed interest, or yeah, if anyone wants to express further interest in that, are flying by the seat of our pants at the moment because I've never ever done anything like this. Um, but there is a few kind people who put their hand up to help guide us. Um but yeah, I think having more conversations of what your capacity is, what you're thinking, um, yeah, just having a conversation, I think.

Questioner: 43:32

Sorry, I'm asking specifically because we have uh young family friends who created the Natural Farming Alliance. It's a much smaller grassroots model that's doing exactly that you you're talking big big ag size. So that's the other end of the spectrum, and I'd love you to have a conversation.

Ian: 43:53

So we're really really lucky with this because the Forest Research Foundation came on board, so that's their big setup there in Netherlands that they've at um Twee's pumped heaps of heaps of money into and they're actually doing a lot of wonderful stuff about bringing you know students in from all over the globe and supporting them to do research. So part of that in the first initial meetings will be building a structure. So how that exact question, how can everyone support? So while you have people doing research and doing all of that, how everyone we're gonna try and work that out how we can bring everyone as a bang as a community-led support as well, and and all different organisations to bring it together so we can work in collaboration and get those results. Spread the word.

AJ: 44:39

Yeah, that's it. I'm hearing there's an inform there's a formal side sort of brewing and able to connect with other semi-formal or formal aspects, but there's an informal, as you said, die, the conversation sort of almost first to just connect and and see what might thousand flowers blooming type stuff. And of course, then there's always the just back in these supply relationships when you find them, huh? Like the people who are selling food here and the millers and bakers of the world that you've been supplying to, and now little creatures and the canfield brewing down there.

Ian: 45:07

Well, probably our thing as a business like our farms prospect pastural company is to, apart from doing all of this work that's happening on, is actually to set the example. So what we've done, and the reason why, one of the good reasons why we've got scale is we can develop markets. So our wool, for example, you know, we grow enough wool to fill complete containers, and we've been able to get send that overseas, get that processed in its own entirety, you know, and it goes in through Italy, and then actually work on that story with the brand. So now all that wool goes to the likes of Stella McCartney and the top fashion labels and go, we see it on the catwalk. Because we've been able to directly link the production method and the story with that and have the entirety of produce. If we would have had to bring in half a dozen other farmers, that would have all got shattered a bit and in the story and how it's all gone. So that market's there and getting developed. Now we as we go along, we'll open that market up to the right farmers to actually join in on that. And the same thing is what we'll do with the the grain. You know, if we have to go and build a $30 million grain mill, that's what we've and you know, hopefully we don't have to do it all ourselves. But if that's what's required, if that if we have to do those things and set the markets up, we've got the grain there. So the biggest issue is I've got we've got uh a person we deal with in the United States that actually set up a grain mill, and um, you know, they I think it's only a 12,000 tonne a year mill and paid for it in three years, but his big biggest thing was he's got a half a dozen or a dozen farmers that have to supply the grain, and that's his hardest part. So we've actually got the grain now to set the mill, which will make the mill actually go quicker, and then we can open it up to other farmers. So that's what we're trying to do as Prospect Partial, so blazed away in some of the markets. So um when we can introduce it to other farmers.

Questioner: 46:58

That's the proof of concept. I keep bobbing up and down because I can't see I can't see you. My question about the food hub, well, first of all, brilliant idea. It's got to happen. It's just got to happen. Um I've we know because we take food tours around Australia connecting consumers with um with producers to to tell them where their food is coming from. The the conversations that we're having today are not getting through to the consumers. So that's like where Anthony and I sit is like that conduit to the consumer. Um for us as well, food is exceptionally important. I've been in food all my life. Um Anthony's an ex-farmer. And so to have somewhere to go in the city to buy food Monday through to Sunday massive, massive thing. And well, you know, we talk to farmers all the time, and we've had a lot of very sad conversations with farmers very recently with all the wet weather that we've had. They have got so much food that they need to get to the markets on Saturday and Sunday, but the markets are closed because of the rain. So what do they do? And it's just been the most horrendous situation. So it's got to be something more than the farmers' markets are brilliant. But not everyone can go on a Saturday and Sunday, and if it rains, everyone gets wet. So I think the food hub is just so exciting.

Di: 48:22

Absolutely brilliant. And I think that's the thing too, because for some farmers it's accessible to take their produce to a farmer's market, but for some like us, it just isn't going to work. Um, and so to have yeah, it available all week, like you're saying, is yeah, really necessary.

Questioner: 48:39

And the other thing is like Miller and Baker, fantastic. We know Mark take people round his bakery and and we talk about your grain and everything. For me, I make bread at home all the time, sourdough bread every week, but I can't get your flour and unless I go to Miller and Baker. So, you know, that's another thing for me. I don't want to make bread with anyone else's flour now because I know so much more about it. I've been educated. So, yeah, we need your flour elsewhere.

Ian: 49:06

Yeah, we have to make it all accessible. You know, Miller and Baker do a wonderful job, but the biggest complaint I have go there, you know, people sitting there and they're 20 deep in the line and they haven't got time, so we have to make that more accessible. And and what so we've got wild bakery now, so that that's really good. But even more than that, again, we have to make that accessible to everyone.

AJ: 49:26

Bears mentioning that that's a hell of a success story, too, isn't it? Like it it's instructive in the way you've described, but they too were borderline. Can we make it through? All the same stuff at that part of the supplier relationship, and uh and blessedly they're making it through. And uh not uh it's such hard yakker and such, you know, bearing some risk, again blazing a trail, but um so amazing success story that they should be 20 D. But yeah, let it breed, let it spread.

Ian: 49:54

Great example to follow, though.

Barry Green: 49:56

Right on, yeah. As always, fantastic listening to you both. I was involved in the formation of the organic meat co-op in about 2007. Sadly, that no longer exists as a co-op. This whole problem of uh abattoir access, and and this problem's been created by government. As Jeff was saying, you know, people weren't getting sick from the small abattoirs, but this is something that's come from further up. That this this idea of standards, uh, it's so often it seems to be uh you know, there's no reason for it, it's just policy. So the the the politicians they've created this mess, so we you know we've got to work with them to change that. And I think that the the things you're talking about, the the fundamental problem we have is that we've got a food system based on down, down on price, and yet we subsidise the sickness industry. So, from a government point of view, they've got to reverse that because it's sending them broke. So we've got to present an economic argument to government. You've got to take an interest in the quality of the food so you don't have to spend so much on the sickness industry. Want to comment on it?

AJ: 50:59

And the drought relief, etc., etc. Flood recovery.

Ian: 51:02

So some of the examples we'll probably put in through the alliance as well. And I don't know, I hear from people they they go to hospital, and um, hospitals are uh are are meant to cure people and fix people up, so they go and have whatever they have done, and why they're laying in bed for the next two days, they generally eat the most uh unhealthiest food they can get, you know, when we're meant to be recovering. And you're sitting there thinking, really? This is our hospital. So, one of my aims in part of this as alliance is say, let's just take one of these hospitals to start off with and make sure that when people are in there they're eating the best possible food that this state can supply, you know. Start those examples happening to um to take that through. And Fiona Stanley was present, wasn't she, at Government House?

Di: 51:49

Was she there? She ended up not being able to make the evening because one of her children or grandchildren, sorry, was unwell and she was in Melbourne with her. But um yeah, Fiona Wood was there.

AJ: 51:59

And Fiona Wood was there. Yeah, so these people again stretching into the health industry like that, yeah. That's again, it's gotta be it's gotta be done, but it's got to be possible too now, it would seem. Yeah. Could we get a mic down here, Tegan? Thank you.

Questioner: 52:12

I'm sort of curious, because you're growing grain, that's great. You're growing wheat and wool, that's great. What about the rest of your food? Who grows that?

Di: 52:20

As in that we supply the market or on farm food.

Questioner: 52:23

No, everything you eat. Who grows that?

Di: 52:25

Um, well, we've got a veggie patch, fortunately, Beck, who's out the back there, um, she's got a good veggie patch. Um, yeah, that's primarily what we do. So we had our own lamb and our own uh bread, which we buy from Miller and Baker in Bolt when we go down to Perth and buy the flour and so forth. But yeah, that is part of our dream too, to have more on farm, virtually growing a lot more diversity, and that's part of that community building on farm as well. We're having people that can that's their passion to do that. We want to have a big external kitchen, I suppose, that the whole farming community can come together and share at least one meal a day, and then because we do have people that come in and want to be part of the farm and experience it as well, and they could eat with the crew um any day of the week. So, yeah, that is part of the longer term plan to grow more and more on farm.

AJ: 53:13

People running chooks, bees, whatever.

Di: 53:16

Yeah, our eldest son's in the process of setting up his first chook wagon, so getting there, but it you know what it's like.

Questioner: 53:23

Lovely to listen to you and hear hear of your experience. Um just interested in your talk about the health and the food. Having experienced that as a health professional working in a hospital and also as a recipient of health care recently, um I used to go through the chef's pantry and look at all the cans of food. And they're all imported. And we're not like we're not supporting our um Golden Valley fruit that's all being pulled out. Well, not maybe not all of it's gone, but a lot of it's gone. And you go to the supermarket and it's from China or South Africa or somewhere else. And we should be supporting our own farmers, even if it costs a few dollars more.

Di: 54:07

Well, that's the thing when it comes down to food sovereignty and food security, and I mean we have an incredible nation here with such biodiverse landscapes and it what it can produce, the diversity of foodstuffs and so forth, and we've really, you know, disregarded that for a long period of time to our own detriment. Um, but I think you know, we can't give up hope, and we've that's the focus going forward, isn't it, to reinvigorate that and focus more at a local level, um, getting that that trusted quality food with integrity onto our table so that we can at least um trigger better health uh at a local level and from you know beyond there as we go.

AJ: 54:47

And no one's turning down the good stuff when they can get access to it. So it sort of comes back to what we've been talking about. Yeah, Will, have your mic in your head?

Will Bignell: 54:55

Yeah, yep. So um look, I I commend what's going on, it's great to evaluate. I've I've been doing that our whole lifetime with our family farm, selling grain into bakers and whatnot, but lion's share goes into dairy cows to make milk, it is good butter. But um I suppose it a comment to feed into those questions, the hollowing out of the supermarket. The supermarket's a distribution channel, right? It's a mirror of what we eat as people. We'll say we'll do one thing before we go in, but we do another thing when our hip pocket burns. Uh, if you compare the cart to what we say we're going to buy when we go out, it's it's two different things, it's diapost. So that's a value proposition that we as consumers, it's a message we need to convey and hold supermarkets and build our brands to account to buy these products. Because in some ways I shudder when you say you've got to double the money. That there's a cost to do all this for the marketing and to scale and to grow. Um, but getting these businesses that are established that have these products and getting them to understand that value proposition of healthy food and this is what we need is so hard. Um, do you guys feel that you can still keep you can scale this to get this the you know, to get the B double hauling good baker's grain straight down into a into a you know, the wonder white is now not fairy bread, it's it is wonder white. Do you reckon you can scale it? Like I I I desperately want to see it. It burnt me up, but I I desperately want to see it. Do you feel you can keep scaling and growing and doing the part trajectory you've had going down this path?

Di: 56:18

I think there just seems to be more people wanting to come on board and be part of that and try and make that achievable. Um and certainly like Anne was talking about that the grain mill idea. Um there is some really good stuff happening around the world to make these things possible and we've just got to stick at it and yeah, working very much at a local level, but if it becomes that we can actually produce more, you know, West Australia and Australia is a food export nation, but yet we're eating poorly ourselves, we're not even accessing it, you know, at a local level. So um yeah, I think there is a lot more hope there than I would have said five years ago.

Ian: 56:57

Yeah, I I definitely think we can scale it, and um and we have to scale it because um what's the other alternative? You know, it's um we've got no choice but not to scale it and keep working it hard, and you know, we haven't got all the answers. Hopefully, Haggerty family don't have to keep pushing away, and it's about collaboration, so we open it up to everyone that wants to come on board and say, hey, help us scale it, you know, in every facet because we've got no other options. We have to scale it, we have to make it work, we have to get the food through and its integrity, and um, and we've been lucky enough to have a lot of doors open and go around the world and say there definitely is things, examples in place that we can follow and tap onto. And and I think the way the world's going at the moment with the shakeup around the world, there is a little bit more focus to say we've been pretty lazy just buying everything in and sending the up the raw materials offshore. I think now, hello, you know, we're gonna wake up a little bit and think we have to do some things at home, you know. Maybe we have to even try and get the ability to put a beetroot in an aluminium can in Australia, which we can't seem to do.

AJ: 58:07

So we've come into time, let's call it there. Would you please give a massive hand to Di and Ian Haggerty? Thank you again to Matthew, Sadie, Ollie, Georgie, Nadia, Tegan, Mitchell, and the whole team at Grounded for generously providing that recording and the whole setup from which it sprung. And of course, thanks to you subscribing listeners for making the episode possible. This week, special thanks to Dana Scott over in Baltimore for doubling your Patreon subscription. You might remember Dana from the Chaco Canyon episodes 264 and 5. And thanks to Tanya Massy, Nadine Hollamby, Kristy Bryden, Mark Kowald, Dave Godden, and Chris Diehl, also over in New Mexico. Thanks so very much for notching up your fourth anniversary of support. I'm so grateful. If you'd like to join us, be part of this great community, get some exclusive stuff and help keep the show going, please do by just heading to the website or the show notes and following those prompts. A reminder that Grounded 2026 will be heading to the Otways of Victoria in April, after our Autumn Equinox course on the Murray River, and the Grounded podcast will also launch soon with all the recordings to date. And you can find a few more photos from today's panel conversation on The RegenNarration website. The music you're hearing is Regeneration by Amelia Bardin. My name's Anthony James. Thanks for listening.